D&D 5E Sorcerer Vs Wizard And Why its Closer Than You Think

gyor · Jun 5, 2019

Fenris-77 said:
It's a fine patch, you just don't like the feel of it - which is fine btw, but how much you appreciate the feel of it doesn't change the effectiveness. The feat specifically addresses a key complaint about the Sorcerer class relating to spell knowledge and utility casting (which you agree is true). The fact that other classes can take it doesn't make any difference though, and that Champion doesn't cast other spells, so to say his utility is on par with the Wizard's is disingenuous.

If you specifically don't want to include feats that's certainly one way to talk about the issue, but in general the talk on this site about builds assumes access to feats, which makes feats a reasonable thing to come up in a conversation of the type we're having.

I'll add only the Sorcerer can apply metamagic to those rituals, so Sorcerer get more out of the feat then others.

Fenris-77 · Jun 5, 2019

[MENTION=6689464]MoonSong[/MENTION] I apologize if my last post came off as curt or dismissive. I rushed to finish it before my break finished. I was really just suggesting that talking about Feats isn't inappropriate in a conversation about class balance, not when it so obviously addresses the specific problem. The fact that you want to compare them without feats is obviously fine, but then the only remedy, assuming a remedy is warranted, is house rules. My general preference is to use the RAW to balance things without houseruling whenever possible.

gyor · Jun 5, 2019

It occurs to me that the real issue is that no one can agree on an objective criteria for assessing if sorcerers or wizards are best.

Also why compare the Sorcerer to the Wizard at all, why not compare it to the Cleric, the Bard, the Fighter, ect...? Are Sorcerers supposed to fill the exact same roll in the party as the Wizard?

Tony Vargas · Jun 5, 2019

gyor said:
It occurs to me that the real issue is that no one can agree on an objective criteria for assessing if sorcerers or wizards are best.

Also why compare the Sorcerer to the Wizard at all, why not compare it to the Cleric, the Bard, the Fighter, ect...? Are Sorcerers supposed to fill the exact same roll in the party as the Wizard?

Well, they're comparable. Both arcane, "clothie" casters with a blasting/control/utility/etc spell portfolio, mostly-daily spontaneous casting, and no share in the healing burden.

5ekyu · Jun 5, 2019

gyor said:
It occurs to me that the real issue is that no one can agree on an objective criteria for assessing if sorcerers or wizards are best.

Also why compare the Sorcerer to the Wizard at all, why not compare it to the Cleric, the Bard, the Fighter, ect...? Are Sorcerers supposed to fill the exact same roll in the party as the Wizard?

Honestly, the comparison to cleric and land druid drives it more to home imo.

The clerics and land druids start with every spell known and level+statmod prepared and add in the auto-prep. So

5th level 18 stat
Sorc knows 6 prep 6 (some thing for sorc)
Wizard knows 14+scribes prep 9+rituals
Cleric knows all prep 9+6(auto) with rituals limited to prepped.

Now there is clearly a difference in spells types between wiz and cleric but the domains tend to break that wall a bit.