The Orville Season Two - Thoughts? - Page 15
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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutation View Post
    I never bought the claim in the Star Trek universe that the Federation had evolved beyond money, and I don't buy it here. (Have we heard of this before on The Orville?) Replicator technology makes most resource shortages disappear, but it's still damned efficient to have a means of tracking the exchange of value.
    Ive thought about this at length, and while writing for a Trek RPG blog.
    Its actually kinda simple and comes down to warp engines and transporters.

    Warp reactors generate enough power to warp space. Which also means a reactor the size of a small strip mall can power the Eastern United States. Theres a riddiculous amount of power available. And when every city can have one you have an effective limitless amount of power. Supply and demand kicks in, and when you have an infinite amount of power it becomes free.
    With unlimited and free power you can do all kinds of projects that would otherwise be cost ineffective. Like mile long greenhouses in the Sahara and mass desalination plants that turn sea water into fresh water. Food and water are also abundant and thus become free.
    The one limiting factor that would increase the cost is shipping. But then transporters come in and that becomes free.

    Then add in being able to mine asteroid belts. That radically increases the availability of metal ore. And even modern tech like 3D printers allowing you to make simple household items.

    Free food, free water, free goods, etc. At that point, why do people need to go to work? Would you keep going to some crap job if everything you need is free?
    Now this is still the mid-2160s. Now fast forward 100 years. At that point money has cases to be important. It cant buy anything of value and many people dont have any.
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  2. #142
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    Back on topic, Im still enjoying this season. Mostly simply relationship episodes, which I rather enjoy. Entire episodes focusing on the crew is fun. But they also had neat social commentary episodes, and the awesome one with the hidden Krill.
    Ive quite been enjoying the series.
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  3. #143
    No wonder Locar wanted all those security access codes.

    Otherwise, for comparison, it reminded me of Star Trek: TOS, season 1 "Court Martial" were one with the technical know-how tries to stage their death and creates evidence to blame the death on another.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    A British show that has more than 6 episodes is a long UK season for me. Quality over quantity.

    Still Blackadder was so good.
    SMEG!

    And here I thought you were gonna mention RED DWARF!

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legatus_Legionis View Post
    No wonder Locar wanted all those security access codes.

    Otherwise, for comparison, it reminded me of Star Trek: TOS, season 1 "Court Martial" were one with the technical know-how tries to stage their death and creates evidence to blame the death on another.



    SMEG!

    And here I thought you were gonna mention RED DWARF!
    Yeah Red Dwarf is great. Series seems to be on an uptick after 8 and 9.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryujin View Post
    With or without the relationship angle, the fact that her devotion to duty and personal morals placed her in a position in which she had to destroy the life of a member of a victimized minority gave the story power.
    Yes.

    I am sure, though, we agree that if they had

    * either managed to arrive at that conclusion without adding a (unsatisfyingly cursory) romantic element between the two
    * or fleshed out said romantic element to make it minimally satisfying

    ...it would have been better, not worse

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    Warp reactors generate enough power to warp space.
    That doesn't mean anything, since we don't actually know what warping space entails. Maybe the outright power output needed to warp space is small, and the trick is what you do with that power.

    To make this point, what you should do is note that the Federation has more *fusion* reactors than you can shake a stick at. Same result, but more accurate reasoning.

    The one limiting factor that would increase the cost is shipping. But then transporters come in and that becomes free.
    This holds in the Trek Universe, yes. But not in The Orville, where we don't see transporters. But, if energy is basically free, then shipping is a matter of time - there's no notable material of fuel cost associated with it.

    Free food, free water, free goods, etc. At that point, why do people need to go to work? Would you keep going to some crap job if everything you need is free?
    How many of the "crap jobs" are in doing things to manually produce the stuff that is now free? You have machines to do heavy labor. Computers to do boring record keeping. Why would you keep going to some crap job when there is no need for humans (or any sentient being) to do crap jobs?

    In the Trek universe, there's no "crap jobs" to speak of. The crappiest you get is shepherding robots that do the crap work for you - and most of that can be done by computer, too.

    Which is to say, yes, there's not a whole lot of need for "wealth" in the current way we think of it. Most humans can spend their time in intellectual and artistic pursuits (like Sisko's father, who has a restaurant - he's a food artist). And, there's a big question as to whether you'd need anyone to *pay* for those intellectual and artistic products, because... well, the artist doesn't *need* anything.

    Money is a concept based in scarcity. In a post-scarcity world, there's not a lot of call for it.
    Last edited by Umbran; Monday, 18th February, 2019 at 03:36 PM.

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  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legatus_Legionis View Post
    No wonder Locar wanted all those security access codes.

    Otherwise, for comparison, it reminded me of Star Trek: TOS, season 1 "Court Martial" were one with the technical know-how tries to stage their death and creates evidence to blame the death on another.
    Reminds me more of season 5, episode 17 "The Outcast", in which Riker strikes up a relationship with a member of an androgynous race.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    It was good, but wasn't the last episode a romance plot? And this one was essentially two simultaneous romance plots (with a murder mystery added in). I'm hoping for some action next week!
    I think the "upgrade the ship" side plot and accompanying test fight was their attempt to shoehorn some action into what was otherwise a relationship episode.


    I also think it worked. I've been surprisingly satisfied with these romance plots. I generally disliked Riker romance on TNG, but these have been working for me. Hopefully they won't get stale.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    Ive thought about this at length, and while writing for a Trek RPG blog.
    Its actually kinda simple and comes down to warp engines and transporters.

    ...

    Free food, free water, free goods, etc. At that point, why do people need to go to work? Would you keep going to some crap job if everything you need is free?
    Now this is still the mid-2160s. Now fast forward 100 years. At that point money has cases to be important. It cant buy anything of value and many people dont have any.
    Some things will always be scarce - prime real estate, original art, honorific titles. Even now, I can get free water, paper, flu shots, and various other goods that have a marginal cost to the provider of nearly zero. But, money is now and probably will be the most efficient way to distribute scarcities, assuming that individual differences in preference are to be respected.
    On a small scale, barter or trading favors works. Across the whole Union, not really.

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