The Orville Season Two - Thoughts? - Page 35
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  1. #341
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    Iĺm loving how important plot points donĺt simply fade away. Case in point: Moclan (FE)males!

  2. #342
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    I called it last time:

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Between last season's episode about Bortas and and Klyden's kid and this one, I suspect Seth is going to come back to these issues unlike Trek would do....and since we have two Moclans as regular characters who've been personally involved in these matters, I doubt it's going to be swept away.
    Yeah, I'd better spoiler block again.

    Spoiler:
    I figured there'd be more problems, the only visit to Moclus that wasn't problematic so far was Bortus taking his yearly piss. Some of the twists were pretty predictable, but I think it went well overall. Bonus points to them bringing back the Moclan female from the first season as the leader. And Ed made a good point about how the Union probably shouldn't be relying solely on the Moclans for arms, especially if their hyper-masculine culture is presenting problems for the Union.

    Klyden's bigotry raised its ugly head again, but we can't count out how much of it is his own defensive reactions to being born female himself. Teaching their son that females are inferior is problematic when the kid's got to interact with other species with different values, and it's a shame the episode didn't touch on that. I also like how Bortus called Klyden out for it in front of Kelly, especially his rudeness to her, while she just wants to avoid getting in the middle of it. Bortus is a bit more open-minded I think partially because he has to work with other people on a daily basis, but it's also more natural given that he didn't reveal how that other guy was into females.

    Interesting contrast between Moclus being completely industrialized, while the sanctuary word is more natural. It could be a subtle nod to to male vs. female theme of the episode, but there's also a more prosaic explanation in that the females don't have enough numbers to industrialize on a planetary scale and they want to remain undetected. Of course, it could be a bit of both too.

    I rolled my eyes at the Dolly Parton stuff, but I think it was both the episode's touch of Seth, and a bit of comic relief.

    The Union Council scenes were pretty good too, showcasing a number of the unique species we've seen on the show so far.


    Moclan biology makes little sense -- a single gendered species of egg-laying males is biologically illogical. However, I'm viewing it in a meta way to suspend my disbelief. Seth is using the Moclans to comment on a host of LGBT issues, and by making them ridiculously hyper-masculine, he's avoiding the stereotypes that would cause trouble like the camp gay or butch lesbian.

    They brought out more Trek alumni here. I recognized Marina Sirtis as the teacher right away, and we had Tony Todd playing one of the Moclan ambassadors I think (hard to tell with all that head rubber )?
    Last edited by Orius; Friday, 12th April, 2019 at 04:46 AM.
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  3. #343
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    You don't have to see Tony Todd to recognize him, you just listen to the voice.

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    Good catch on Tony Todd. I wasn't sure I was seeing what I thought I was, so I checked IMDB; not listed on his page, but confirmed on The Orville's page.

  5. #345
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    I saw his name in the post opening credits. I expected Ron Canada to be a Moclan also. They had a lot guest stars in this one

    I loved the Dolly Parton stuff. She was a great choice.

  6. #346
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    I'm guessing the hiatus is over, and new discussion = new episode

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    I saw his name in the post opening credits. I expected Ron Canada to be a Moclan also. They had a lot guest stars in this one

    I loved the Dolly Parton stuff. She was a great choice.
    When we're talking 500 years (or whatever) in the future, I don't mind a little historical silliness. I loved the ZX-11 Ninja motorcycle rebuild in "Babylon 5", for example
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  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    I saw his name in the post opening credits. I expected Ron Canada to be a Moclan also. They had a lot guest stars in this one
    I think he already played as an admiral before? The 4 admirals they had in this episode had all shown up before if so.

    Though Ron Canada as a Moclan would have been funny in its own subtle meta way, since he was the testosterone poisoned captain in Babylon 5, and Moclans are Testosterone Poisoning: the Species.
    Laugh Dannyalcatraz laughed with this post

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    I remember him being on the show before but for reason I had as a moclan in my head. Its odd.

  10. #350
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    WARNING SPOILERS - Shouldn't have to state it on this thread (I don't read it until I've seen the newest episode) but since I'm un-commenting parts of a spoiler commented block, I figure I should give a warning up front.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I called it last time:

    Teaching their son that females are inferior is problematic when the kid's got to interact with other species with different values, and it's a shame the episode didn't touch on that.
    That was a major theme of the episode and this was used as an intro and the conclusion. Not sure how much more they should have done. I think the balance is about right. It is easy to seem a bit ham-fisted about these things.

    I rolled my eyes at the Dolly Parton stuff, but I think it was both the episode's touch of Seth, and a bit of comic relief.
    I did initially, but we see this even in earth history. Things that were taken deadly as part of religious dogma become children's stories and stories for kids become cultural touch stones. I've certainly found things meaningful and interesting in Chinese culture that many of Chinese friends roll their eyes at. It is difficult to predict how someone on earth today will react to art, music, or literature from another contemporary earth culture. How much moreso intelligent life removed by centuries and light years?

    Besides, I'm a big Dolly Parton fan. :-)


    The Union Council scenes were pretty good too, showcasing a number of the unique species we've seen on the show so far.
    Yes, I like how this makes the unique members of the crew and especially the unique walk-on visitors feel more part of the story and universe rather than a random alien-looking creature thrown in to drive home that this is a sci-fi show.

    The one thing that bothers me is how so many species in the universe seem to evolved with hominid-like bodies, to breath the same air (or air at all), etc. I realize that there are budget reasons for this and all we can do is give a few nods to this, but when you see everyone sitting in a UN assembly style hall, it beggars belief. I choose to believe that all those attendees are not their physically. Instead they are hologram projections. And advanced form of telepresence technology.

    Moclan biology makes little sense -- a single gendered species of egg-laying males is biologically illogical. However, I'm viewing it in a meta way to suspend my disbelief. Seth is using the Moclans to comment on a host of LGBT issues, and by making them ridiculously hyper-masculine, he's avoiding the stereotypes that would cause trouble like the camp gay or butch lesbian.
    Well, advanced technology can make this work, unfortunately. Certainly there have been serious moves in Earth history to apply this to race--an example of using new sciences to support unscientific beliefs.

    There have been similar calls for making mankind single gender, though it is from people currently far-out-of-the-mainstream. If anything our mainstream is moving away from enforcing the concept of two genders and we will eventually have a planet where some cultures enforcement of two gender roles will look like how the Moclans are portrayed in the Orville. Most calls for a single-gender humanity that I've seen were for a woman-only society. The most well known is the S.C.U.M Manifesto by Valerie Solanas, most famous for her attempted murder of Andy Warhol.

    Our technology has advanced to the point predicted by Solanas and the society she envisioned is theoretically possible.

    It is difficult to believe that such theories would ever gain sufficient political support to actually effectuate a single-gender humanity, but we don't know what the history of Moclan is. On earth, today, the treatment of women varies greatly from culture to culture. In China, the One Child Policy, which sought to address population pressures led to the abortion and infanticide, and abandonment of many girls. Both China and India are today struggling with a gender unbalance, creating what some call a crisis of masculinity. If relatively small unbalances cause big societal issue, what if there was something in Moclan culture, perhaps some biological factor in addition to cultural factors that created huge imbalances.

    I suspect that Seth McFarlane is aware of some of this and that it influenced how he envisions Moclus and Moclan culture.

    Of course, I'm glossing over the "men" hatching eggs. Where do the eggs come from? It would have been more believable for the Moclans to have eschewed sexual reproduction for cloning.

    The Sontarans from Doctor Who seem like a more believable version of what Moclans would be like (at least as the Sontaran origins are explained in the Doctor Who RPG by FASA).

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