D&D 5E yes, this again: Fighters need more non-combat options

At our table whether there is a NPC or PC who is paralysed, unconscious...etc a slit of the throat or similar type action is usually an automatic success barring any other in-game narrative that needs to be taken into account (armour removal, immunity to normal weapons, size of the creature...etc).
Rolls are almost never required in a situation like this.
And that is one valid option, but it relies on the assumption that the DM will change the rules of the game in order for it to happen. Because we have existing rules to model that exact situation, and those rules say you need to get through the HP first.

Whatever decisions our characters make, they are always informed by the actual rules that are applied by the DM, rather than just what's in the book.
 

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I'm very good at it actually. It's just that with all of the variables, it's not possible for people to just pick up the small difference between a +3 and +5 here in the real world when it comes to social interactions, which is what we are talking about.
When you're dealing with a d20 system, any variable large enough to model is significant. You're trying to tell me that you can't tell the difference between someone with (effectively) Charisma 14 and Charisma 18, after extensive interaction in a social context. I'm not saying you can instantly spot the stats of anyone walking down the street, but these are your fellow party members. Ross has a pretty good idea of what Chandler and Joey are capable of.
This is what the book says. Note the bolded portions.
You bolded the wrong part. The relevant bit is that DM's describe damage in different ways, which means everything after that is just one possible suggestion. Besides, how a DM describes damage to your character is not necessarily the same as how they describe damage to a meaty beast. You're making far too many unfounded assumptions here.
Every year I read about people who were restrained and survived a slit throat because the attacker doesn't do it right. Also, you only roll when the outcome is in doubt.
Right. The outcome is in doubt, because we don't know how much damage the attack will deal, which means the roll is necessary. It's possible for someone to not die instantly, whether or not your character believes it is likely, and Hit Points are the metric by which we determine that. We don't even know if you'll hit successfully; you could miss, because the rules for whether or not you hit are based on math in the book, and not your personal opinion.
If the creature has no chance of getting out of the paralyzation or binding, then the DM should just narrate the slit throat and have it done. It's an auto success. If the DM is making you roll, he's not engaging that rule properly.
You clearly don't understand the concept of what's required for automatic success. You just said that people have survived this, even in the real world! Now you expect the DM to implement a house rule going against the rules which are clearly spelled out in the book. Pick a side!
Not one thing I have said involves bringing out of character knowledge into the game, so there is no metagaming involved. Your method on the other hand has PCs using player knowledge of the game numbers to choose how to act. You are the only one here involved with metagaming.
For one thing, you seem to be suffering under the belief that slitting someone's throat is automatically lethal, which is simply not a true fact about how the game world works. You're meta-gaming, based on your understanding of how the real world works! Even after admitting that you're wrong about how the real world works!

My characters, to contrast, are only making their decisions based on things that they can observe within the game world. That's what role-playing is all about.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Since Saelorn apparently posted and then blocked me to get in the last word, I'm going to respond off of my phone email due to the poor form involved with that sort of tactic.

Point 1: While it's possible to tell the difference between an 18 charisma and a 14 charisma, those are not the only things involved in an interaction between PCs and NPCs. There will be proficiency, starting attitudes, the NPC maybe getting up on the wrong side of the bed that morning or not liking elves or many other variables. That combination of variables makes it impossible for the PCs to know whether a bunch of successes and failures are due to one PC having a +3 total, and the other a +5 total. They just can't plot out all interactions in enough detail to figure out which of the two PCs is better at talking to people.

Point 2: If you take the sentence "DMs describe damage in different ways." out of context you are correct. However, the context of the rest of that paragraph shows that the "different ways" are just different ways to describe hits for creatures with more than half hit points, less than half hit points, and zero hit points. For example, a sword swing that hits for 10 points of damage against a PC with max 80 hit points can be described as follows, DM 1) The priest of Bane swings his sword at your head and you duck at the last second, losing a few hairs in the process, or DM 2) The priest of Bane swings his sword at you and the firm hand of Tyr, your god, slows the swing down just enough that it fails to penetrate your armor, or DM 3) The priest of Bane swings his sword hard at your middle, you step backwards involuntarily and luckily stumble to your left, causing the sword to glance off of your armor.

Point 3: The outcome, death by slit throat, is not in doubt in the slightest. Whether it takes you one cut, or you have to saw your way through the neck, it's going to happen 100%. Just declare it a success and move on.

Point 4: See above.

Point: 5: Skipping, because it's just not worth trying to teach you what metagaming is anymore.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
When you're dealing with a d20 system, any variable large enough to model is significant. You're trying to tell me that you can't tell the difference between someone with (effectively) Charisma 14 and Charisma 18, after extensive interaction in a social context. I'm not saying you can instantly spot the stats of anyone walking down the street, but these are your fellow party members. Ross has a pretty good idea of what Chandler and Joey are capable of.
You bolded the wrong part. The relevant bit is that DM's describe damage in different ways, which means everything after that is just one possible suggestion. Besides, how a DM describes damage to your character is not necessarily the same as how they describe damage to a meaty beast. You're making far too many unfounded assumptions here.
Right. The outcome is in doubt, because we don't know how much damage the attack will deal, which means the roll is necessary. It's possible for someone to not die instantly, whether or not your character believes it is likely, and Hit Points are the metric by which we determine that. We don't even know if you'll hit successfully; you could miss, because the rules for whether or not you hit are based on math in the book, and not your personal opinion.
You clearly don't understand the concept of what's required for automatic success. You just said that people have survived this, even in the real world! Now you expect the DM to implement a house rule going against the rules which are clearly spelled out in the book. Pick a side!
For one thing, you seem to be suffering under the belief that slitting someone's throat is automatically lethal, which is simply not a true fact about how the game world works. You're meta-gaming, based on your understanding of how the real world works! Even after admitting that you're wrong about how the real world works!

My characters, to contrast, are only making their decisions based on things that they can observe within the game world. That's what role-playing is all about.

Since Saelorn apparently posted and then blocked me to get in the last word, I'm going to respond off of my phone email due to the poor form involved with that sort of tactic.

Point 1: While it's possible to tell the difference between an 18 charisma and a 14 charisma, those are not the only things involved in an interaction between PCs and NPCs. There will be proficiency, starting attitudes, the NPC maybe getting up on the wrong side of the bed that morning or not liking elves or many other variables. That combination of variables makes it impossible for the PCs to know whether a bunch of successes and failures are due to one PC having a +3 total, and the other a +5 total. They just can't plot out all interactions in enough detail to figure out which of the two PCs is better at talking to people.

Point 2: If you take the sentence "DMs describe damage in different ways." out of context you are correct. However, the context of the rest of that paragraph shows that the "different ways" are just different ways to describe hits for creatures with more than half hit points, less than half hit points, and zero hit points. For example, a sword swing that hits for 10 points of damage against a PC with max 80 hit points can be described as follows, DM 1) The priest of Bane swings his sword at your head and you duck at the last second, losing a few hairs in the process, or DM 2) The priest of Bane swings his sword at you and the firm hand of Tyr, your god, slows the swing down just enough that it fails to penetrate your armor, or DM 3) The priest of Bane swings his sword hard at your middle, you step backwards involuntarily and luckily stumble to your left, causing the sword to glance off of your armor.

Point 3: The outcome, death by slit throat, is not in doubt in the slightest. Whether it takes you one cut, or you have to saw your way through the neck, it's going to happen 100%. Just declare it a success and move on.

Point 4: See above.

Point: 5: Skipping, because it's just not worth trying to teach you what metagaming is anymore.

You can both see me, right?

:)
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
Since Saelorn apparently posted and then blocked me to get in the last word, I'm going to respond off of my phone email due to the poor form involved with that sort of tactic.

It's possible Saelorn really has no idea how offensive he is being when he dismisses everybody else as "not roleplaying" because they don't adhere to his very narrow, specific, and frankly oddball* version of roleplaying.

Then when people, justifiably irked, respond with a similar level of dismissiveness, he thinks they are being uncivil and mean so he blocks them.

That's my theory, anyway.

*Example: wood elves "would" behave in specific ways simply because they are, you know, wood elves. And I guess all wood elves are exactly alike.
 
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Satyrn

First Post
It's possible Saelorn really has no idea how offensive he is being when he dismisses everybody else as "not roleplaying" because they don't adhere to his very narrow, specific, and frankly oddball* version of roleplaying.

Then when people, justifiably irked, respond with a similar level of dismissiveness, he thinks they are being uncivil and mean so he blocks them.

That's my theory, anyway.

*Example: wood elves "would" behave in specific ways simply because they are, you know, wood elves. And I guess all wood elves are exactly alike.
You've been spelling it wrong. They're "Would Elves"

How much would would a would elf would If a would elf could would wood?
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It's possible Saelorn really has no idea how offensive he is being when he dismisses everybody else as "not roleplaying" because they don't adhere to his very narrow, specific, and frankly oddball* version of roleplaying.

Then when people, justifiably irked, respond with a similar level of dismissiveness, he thinks they are being uncivil and mean so he blocks them.

That's my theory, anyway.

*Example: wood elves "would" behave in specific ways simply because they are, you know, wood elves. And I guess all wood elves are exactly alike.

I would have left his metagaming alone if he hadn't incorrectly accused me of metagaming while doing it himself. I really don't have much sympathy for him getting upset at being told he's metagaming when he is the one who leveled the charge it me first.
 

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