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  1. #11
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    I like the idea of these rituals as tool proficiencies, that a character might know 1 or 2 at the start of the game, and then learn more through downtime or taking feats.

    I think I'd change the name to something other than ritual, though, to separate them from all the rules around 5e's rituals. I don't know what that new name should be, though. I might use "rites" but that's as confusing as having characters called Saruman and Sauron in the same book.

  2. #12
    Rites sounds great. I would use these as a form of treasure, doled as rewards for services to a temple or organization.

    I think possible costs could be...

    - gold
    - HD
    - Inspiration
    - Ability Damage

    I always loved the 3rd edition Forgotten realms rites that some faiths granted.

  3. #13
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    The easy version of this?

    Rites (an alternative name for Rituals due to 5E already having a mechanic with that name) would be something that can be performed by someone witht the correct skill proficiency. Some rites are arcane, others divine, and others nature. Some require proficinecy in a comination of those skills. You'd need to have access to the Rite's instructions.

    Rites usually have material components that are consumed in any attempt to perform the rite. If disrupted, the rite fails and the material components are ruined.

    Rites have long 'casting' times - 1 hour minimum. Throughout the rite, several skill checks will be performed. These checks, functioning much like a 4E skill challenge, will determine if the attempt will work.

    Let's say that someone wants to use a rite to move an enchantment from a sword to a glaive. There was a 4E ritual to move enchantments. I'd give the parallel rite a casting time based upon rarity (1 hour for common, 10 years for artifacts), a cost of 1/4 the cost of the item per DMG recommendations based upon rarity and require 3 successful skill checks out of 4 attempts with DCs based upon the rarity of the item (10 for common, 12 for uncommon, 15 for rare, 20 for very rary, 25 for legendary, 30 for artifacts).
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  4. #14
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    @Doc_Klueless Many of 4e's rituals are already in the game as spells or class features...

    Explosive Runes > Glyph of Warding, Eye of Alarm > alarm, Familiar Mount > find steed or perhaps class features, Far Sending > sending, Find the Path > find the path, Fools' Gold > various illusion spells, Forbiddance > forbiddance, etc.

    I'd be wary about interpreting 4e rituals as level 3 = PC level needed to cast in 5e, because there are different assumptions in how 4e and 5e are designed.

    For example, take Eagles' Flight a 10th level ritual that conjures up to 8 giant eagles (non-combatants) with an overland fly speed of around 15 to 20 (depending on your Nature check), flying for 12 hours. According to your system, you'd be granting this to PCs at... 10 3 = 3.3.... at 3rd level (or 4th level if you round up).

    If you compare that to the 3rd level fly spell in 5e which is available to 5th-level PCs and only affects one creature Eagles' Flight is objectively superior.

    This is the sort of challenge you're going to encounter when trying to generate a general level conversion rule. 5e has very different baseline assumptions. I suspect you'll need to curate your list extensively.

  5. #15
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    As others have mentioned, some Rites (I like the name as well!) are duplicates of spells held by characters and that's ok with me for the most part depending on the spell (such as Raise Dead that should be firmly in the grasp of Clerics and such). I don't mind others being able to do some of the things that other spell casting classes can do if it comes at a cost. That cost being time, money and skill.

    I do think that jgsugden is on to something with having Rites take an hour or more to complete. That leaves the Rituals by Casters/Feat holders even better in that they only take 10 minutes or so. I'm thinking 50 minutes plus 10 minutes per level of Rite. So a hypothetical 20th level Rite would take a little over 4 hours to cast. Hmmm.... that may be too long. Maybe modify the time by the level of the Character? Hrm. Or just take the time listed in the 4e listings and add an hour to them. Simple in its... er... simplicity.

    I also like the idea of the characters having to do multiple skill checks to complete the Rite, though I'm not entirely sure how I'd want to do that.

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    Last edited by Doc_Klueless; Monday, 28th January, 2019 at 10:09 PM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quickleaf View Post
    I'd be wary about interpreting 4e rituals as level 3 = PC level needed to cast in 5e, because there are different assumptions in how 4e and 5e are designed.
    Yah. I had someone point out that I should use 4e Level 1.5 = PC level needed to cast in 5e.

    It's a place to start modifying from.

  7. #17
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    Here's your 4e PHB Rituals List by the way, for a starting reference point (though when you expand the list to all sources including "official" dragon magazine ones, I think there are 277):

    Animal Messenger
    Arcane Lock
    Brew Potion
    Commune with Nature
    Comprehend Language
    Consult Mystic Sages
    Consult Oracle
    Cure Disease
    Detect Object
    Detect Secret Doors
    Discern Lies
    Disenchant Magic Item
    Drawmij's Instant Summons
    Enchant Magic Item
    Endure Elements
    Eye of Alarm
    Eye of Warning
    Forbiddance
    Gentle Repose
    Hallucinatory Creature
    Hallucinatory Item
    Hand of Fate
    Knock
    Leomund's Secret Chest
    Linked Portal
    Loremaster's Bargain
    Magic Circle
    Magic Mouth
    Make Whole
    Observe Creature
    Passwall
    Phantom Steed
    Planar Portal
    Raise Dead
    Remove Affliction
    Secret Page
    Sending
    Shadow Walk
    Silence
    Speak with Dead
    Tenser's Floating Disk
    Travelers' Feast
    True Portal
    View Location
    View Object
    Voice of Fate
    Water Breathing
    Water Walk
    Wizard's Sight
    Last edited by Mistwell; Monday, 28th January, 2019 at 10:59 PM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Quickleaf View Post
    @Doc_Klueless Many of 4e's rituals are already in the game as spells or class features...

    Explosive Runes > Glyph of Warding, Eye of Alarm > alarm, Familiar Mount > find steed or perhaps class features, Far Sending > sending, Find the Path > find the path, Fools' Gold > various illusion spells, Forbiddance > forbiddance, etc.

    I'd be wary about interpreting 4e rituals as level 3 = PC level needed to cast in 5e, because there are different assumptions in how 4e and 5e are designed.

    For example, take Eagles' Flight a 10th level ritual that conjures up to 8 giant eagles (non-combatants) with an overland fly speed of around 15 to 20 (depending on your Nature check), flying for 12 hours. According to your system, you'd be granting this to PCs at... 10 3 = 3.3.... at 3rd level (or 4th level if you round up).

    If you compare that to the 3rd level fly spell in 5e which is available to 5th-level PCs and only affects one creature Eagles' Flight is objectively superior.

    This is the sort of challenge you're going to encounter when trying to generate a general level conversion rule. 5e has very different baseline assumptions. I suspect you'll need to curate your list extensively.
    IIRC though, those eagles wouldn't function in any sort of combat situation (most 4e rituals are at the very least difficult to use in combat). So, not objectively superior, but for travel obviously much better.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyhermit View Post
    IIRC though, those eagles wouldn't function in any sort of combat situation (most 4e rituals are at the very least difficult to use in combat). So, not objectively superior, but for travel obviously much better.
    Make the ritual end if any eagle is damaged, and the PCs float down to the ground, makes it a purely out of combat ability.

    Even without that, just make them unwilling to participate in combat. They will only run away.

    Lastly, for heroic tier rituals, Id just keep the levels the same for the most part.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyhermit View Post
    IIRC though, those eagles wouldn't function in any sort of combat situation (most 4e rituals are at the very least difficult to use in combat). So, not objectively superior, but for travel obviously much better.
    Objectively superior, exactly.

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