ccs
41st lv DM
You know 3.5? And you can create a tailored campaign in one afternoon? Then trust me, you can learn 5e in a single afternoon as well.
Why do people still play older editions of D&D? Are they superior to the current one?
You know 3.5? And you can create a tailored campaign in one afternoon? Then trust me, you can learn 5e in a single afternoon as well.
Learn to play, I believe you. Learn to teach and DM, I am more skeptical about. I've played enough game systems in my life to know what I don't know. I've heard 5e is supposed to be easier to balance, but I would have to force everyone to play as generic fighter-rogue-cleric-wizard to be sure on the first time out (instead of the unique feeling characters I was able to help people build for 3.5 using the wide variety of feats and classes that I'm familiar with).
All game mechanics aside, 3.5 is the most navigable system for me, simply because of experience. If anyone has a question I don't know the answer to, I know the books (and my curated files) well enough to find the answer fast enough to get it right and not slow down gameplay. 5e may not take the typical 10,000 hours to master, but there's no way I could be that fluent in it without at least a few games under my belt.
So, I hear what you're saying. I like what you're saying. Someday, I hope to experience what you are saying. But today is not that day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.
Tony Vargas
Legend
3.5/PF is a much richer and more detailed system, there's also a lot more material out for either of them than for 5e, and they're fairly adaptable to eachother (and to 3.0), so 5e's relative dearth of support is in competition with the vast pool of stuff available for those systems, combined.
As a player, you can get a lot closer to playing /exactly/ the character you envision in 3.x/PF than in 5e. It may or may not be viable along side what everyone else is playing, but you can do it. Conversely, as a DM, 3.x/PF can be a bit of a nightmare.
The original D&D, pre-Greyhawk 'Oe' or '0D&D,' is not played that much, AFAIK. But, nostalgia or authenticity or whatever you want to call that fetish for the old, is a major part of people choosing AD&D or other 20th-century/TSR-era editions/variations over more modern ones.
No, the terrible things that 5e does can generally also be done in past editions - sometimes even more terribly.
Probably not.
The appeal of TSR era D&D is mainly nostalgia, if you didn't experience it in the 20th century, you won't get it, now - at most it'll be bemusing, like listening to a gramophone or watching a silent movie.
The learning curve of 3.x/PF is quite steep, and part of the reason people have stuck with it through two easier/'better' subsequent editions is in part the investment sunk into learning it (and the payoff it offers said system mastery). Even if you wanted the payoff of mastering 3.x/PF, the existing community will always be ahead of you on that curve.
Retreater has made a case for 4e actually being better for new D&Ders, even those who have already started with 5e. (It does have a gentler learning curve, is easier to DM, and is the best-balanced edition of a very badly-balanced game.)
Edit: Actually, I see he's already weighed in on this thread:
But, if you really want to play a game that's better than 5e D&D, you might as well go all the way and play a game that doesn't even purport to be D&D. There are lots of games that are /much/ better than any edition of D&D has been, or even tried to be.
Most games, really.
The problem is picking one, and finding 5 other gamers who agree with that choice.
;P
TL;DR - no, but the current one is not superior to the older ones, either.
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Zardnaar
Legend
Old games are not nostalgia. When I run AD&D it's for 3E, Pathfinder and 5E players. I don't have a bag of grogs I can pull out a OSR gamer from.
They tend to prefer 5E but liked 2E AD&D although I dumped THAC0.
Last Adventure I ran was X8 Drums of Fire Mountain iirc. Never played a few of the older adventures so the nostalgia factors not there.
I wouldn't go out of my way to play old D&D but if you get the opportunity to try it why not.
They tend to prefer 5E but liked 2E AD&D although I dumped THAC0.
Last Adventure I ran was X8 Drums of Fire Mountain iirc. Never played a few of the older adventures so the nostalgia factors not there.
I wouldn't go out of my way to play old D&D but if you get the opportunity to try it why not.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
"Bag a Grogs" now *has* to be a magic item in my campaign.
A bag of endless pints of Ale?
A bag that summons a goliath barbarian/fighter to join your battle?
No. You summon an old soldier who calls you a pussy and talks about how soldiers in his day were real men who wouldn't need to summon old guys about of a bag to get things done.
ParanoydStyle
Peace Among Worlds
Personally, 3.5 is my favorite edition of Dungeons & Dragons. It is not perfect, but I know its flaws well and have developed workarounds for the ones that come up most often. (Pathfinder does make some improvements but also adds complexity, and there's the "false compatibility" issue.)
However, I have a feeling I'll be playing D&D 5E for the foreseeable future because it is HUGE and I want to both work and play in this industry. It's at the point where you don't even say D&D 5E, just "D&D". There's a whole generation of vocal, enthusiastic players with disposable income for whom this is the only edition of D&D they have EVER KNOWN (which is very strange to me). I'd prefer to be playing and working on 3.5, but people aren't playing or buying 3.5, they're playing and buying 5E. I'm more relieved that 5E is good enough that I can enjoy playing it than I am annoyed that I'm not getting to play my personal very favorite edition.
Someone needs to somehow splice this into at least one line on every "Random Magical Effect Table" in every single work printed for 5th Edition, wand of wonder, spell mishap, etcetera etcetera. That would be AMAZING.
However, I have a feeling I'll be playing D&D 5E for the foreseeable future because it is HUGE and I want to both work and play in this industry. It's at the point where you don't even say D&D 5E, just "D&D". There's a whole generation of vocal, enthusiastic players with disposable income for whom this is the only edition of D&D they have EVER KNOWN (which is very strange to me). I'd prefer to be playing and working on 3.5, but people aren't playing or buying 3.5, they're playing and buying 5E. I'm more relieved that 5E is good enough that I can enjoy playing it than I am annoyed that I'm not getting to play my personal very favorite edition.
Someone needs to somehow splice this into at least one line on every "Random Magical Effect Table" in every single work printed for 5th Edition, wand of wonder, spell mishap, etcetera etcetera. That would be AMAZING.
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
Thing is, ANY edition can be learned in an afternoon. Less, if someone who ALREADY knows the edition can teach it. But just because a new edition exists does not invalidate any older edition. No edition has an expiration date. The choice to NOT learn 5E is not just a matter of, "can it be learned fast/easily". If you have ANY other edition that works well enough for you and the people you game with, you don't NEED another edition. "I like it," is all the more reason anyone needs to play any past edition, and "I just don't want to," is likewise sufficient (or should be...) to end any and all attempts to convert the Luddite Heathens.
As DM my first choice of editions is 1E. I have pretty much got it how I want it after some 40 years. I can also run or play 3.5 at the drop of a hat and have chosen to do so over 1E in the past simply because I can do so without needing as many house rules and it's easier to teach to complete newbs. I've played a LITTLE bit of 5E and will gladly do so again, but will almost certainly NEVER run it as DM because I just don't care to put forth the time and effort and money to gear up to do so. I've got 1E and 3.5 with associated adventures and campaign settings and decades of experience and familiarity with running them. I can run them with FAR less effort and be just as happy if not more so.
And this.
Arnwolf666
Adventurer
I love 2E and BECMI. Most things that are feats are just things u can do inthe combat section. There is a power attack in rc and becmi for example. I guess u could call weapon specializing, mastery and grand mastery feats also. But not alot of complication to it. I also love the roll under ability score skill mechanic.
And I hate making perception checks. If I search in the right place u find it. A surprise roll suffices for me for other things
I like the way spells and magic work. Not a fan of the way concentration is implemented.
I love morale and henchman with charisma. In fact I think morale works better than intimidation and makes more sense.
I think the reaction adjustment checks makes more sense than persuasion for how it is applied. And gives more rp opportunities imho.
And I hate making perception checks. If I search in the right place u find it. A surprise roll suffices for me for other things
I like the way spells and magic work. Not a fan of the way concentration is implemented.
I love morale and henchman with charisma. In fact I think morale works better than intimidation and makes more sense.
I think the reaction adjustment checks makes more sense than persuasion for how it is applied. And gives more rp opportunities imho.
Sadras
Legend
Captain Redbeard Rum: Aaaaaaahrrrrr Aaaaaaahrrrrr Aaaaaaaaaaahrrrrr. Me laddy.
Blackadder: Ah-haah-ah, indeed. So, Rum, I wish to hire you and your ship. Can we shake on it? [holds out hand]
Rum: aah-ahhh! [strokes his hand] You have a woman’s hand, milord! I’ll wager these dainty pinkies never weighed anchor in a storm.
Blackadder: Well, you’re right there.
Rum: Ha ha ha. -Aah! Your skin milord. I’ll wager it ne’er felt the lash of a cat [‘o’ nine tails], been rubbed with salt, and then flayed off by a pirate chief to make fine stockings for his best cabin boy.
Blackadder: How canny, I don’t know how you do it, but you’re right again.
Rum: Why should I let a stupid cockerel like you aboard me boat?
Blackadder: Perhaps for the money in my purse [holding it up]
Rum: Ha. -Aah! You have a woman’s purse! [takes it from him and examines it daintily] I’ll wager that purse has never been used as a rowing-boat. I’ll wager it’s never had sixteen shipwrecked mariners tossing in it.
Blackadder: Yes, right again, Rum. I must say when it comes to tales of courage I’m going to have to keep my mouth shut.
Rum: Oh! You have a woman’s mouth, milord! I’ll wager that mouth never had to chew through the side of a ship to escape the dreadful spindly killer fish.
Blackadder: I must say, when I came to see you, I had no idea I was going to have to eat your ship as well as hire it. And since you’re clearly as mad as a mongoose I’ll bid you farewell [gets up]
...(snip)...
Rum: I’ll come, I’ll come [holds out his hand]
Blackadder: Well, let us set sail as soon as we can. [they shake] I will fetch my first mate, and then I’ll return as fast as my legs will carry me.
Rum: Ah! [pointing] You have a woman’s legs, my lord! I’ll wager those are legs that have never been sliced clean off by a falling sail, and swept into the sea before your very eyes.
Blackadder: [crossly] Well, neither have yours.
Rum: That’s where you’re wrong [throws aside table showing his lack of legs]
Blackadder: Oh my God!
Interesting question - and answered pretty well in the posts above. In my experience it tends to be where you came in and made the most investment - time and money. I still play basically 1st ed rules but have added a few extra things from 2nd ed (like the secondary or non-weapon skills). Does it limit play? Not in my opinion because the way we play is much more collaborative group puzzle solving...plus beer/wine and a belly full of laughs. The basic rules do limit initial character selection and development but is that really why you are playing the game? There are plenty of other fun things to do with it and at the end of day it's more about you and your group of friends getting together on a regular (or irregular) basis. We are still playing after 35 years - marriages, kids, divorces and a ton of other real life nonsense getting in the way. When we want to switch pace or fancy a change someone else in group runs some Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, or Traveller for a while and/or we start a new campaign. For AD&D I think I have almost every module, rule book and supplement issued for both 1st & 2nd Ed. Why change to a new edition of the same game? Will we role play any differently? I don't think so...
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