Hexblade, Pact of the Blade, Improved Pact Weapon and Elemental Weapon

Apologies f this has been hashed out before - I searched for it and did not find it.

We have a 9th level Hexblade with Improved Pact Weapon as an Invocation, and Pact of the Blade. They have Cast Elemental Weapon (a Hexblade spell) with a 5th level slot. Their weapon is a 2 handed sword they created with Pact of the Blade.

Pact of the Blade: You can use your action to create a pact weapon in your empty hand... This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Improved Pact Weapon: You can use any weapon you summon with your Pact of the Blade feature as a spellcasting focus for your warlock spells.

In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.

Elemental Weapon: A nonmagical weapon you touch becomes a magic weapon. Choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. For the duration, the weapon has a +1 bonus to attack rolls and deals an extra 1d4 damage of the chosen type when it hits.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th or 6th level, the bonus to attack rolls increases to +2 and the extra damage increases to 2d4. When you use a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the bonus increases to +3 and the extra damage increases to 3d4.

---- So, your summoned/created weapon counts as magical for specifi purposes, but is not magical. You can use it as a focus and it gets +1 to hit and damage generally - but nothing makes it a magic weapon and the language specifies speifically that it is only sometimes a magic weapon (as in when you used your Pact abilities with an existing magic weapon). When you cast Elemental weapon, it is not a magic weapon and gets +2 to hit and +2d4 elemental (you choose) damage.

Is all of that right?

If so, does the +2/2d4 damage go on top of the Improved Pact Weapon +1/+1 for to hit/damage?

Now, we can also use the weapon as an implement. Does the Improved Pact Weapon and Elemental Weapon damage bonus to hit and damage apply to damage from an Eldritch Blast cast while using the weapon as an implement? The Improved Pact Weapon applies the bonus to the weapon/implement's attack and damage rolls ... are the spell attack rolls and damage rolls onsidered to be the weapon and damage rolls of the implement if the implement was used? Similarly, Elemental weapon doesn't specify weapon attack rolls... just attack rolls.

Using a weapon as a focus does not confer it's bonus to hit and damage to spells cast while using it as a focus. Even though a magic weapon is being used as the focus, the spell is not an attack from that weapon. Being able to use it as a focus just allows you to use the weapon without needing a free hand for casting spells. It is a conduit for focusing your magical energy, not another way to attack with the weapon.

I wouldn't allow Elemental weapon to be used on a summoned pact weapon. The trait already specifies that the weapon is considered magical. Plus a weapon that is summoned from nothingness doesn't seem like a nonmagical weapon to me. I think it's splitting hairs to say it's a magic weapon for something, but a nonmagic weapon for other things. But, if your table is fine with that, go for it.

The +1 from Improved Pact Weapon definitely wouldn't stack with Elemental Weapon, though. Elemental weapon makes it a magic weapon with bonuses to hit and damage, thus negating the +1 from Improved Pact Weapon.

1) bonus doesn’t apply to spells (it’s a focus, but nothing says its bonus goes to spells).

2) you would have a +2 bonus (pact weapon says it gives a bonus ONLY if you don’t already get a magic weapon bonus...so it doesn’t stack).

3) with those notes, I see no issue casting the spell on the pact weapon, I think it’s awesome

Recall that this is NOT A MAGIC WEAPON, but counts as one for several purposes. It is clear that it is not a magic weapon.

As for the pact weapon being magical: I could see an argument either way. There's a broad category of things in D&D that are "supernatural" but not quite magical. For example, a ghost. Most people would say that a ghost clearly violates the laws of physics. But, most of us don't think of ghosts as "magical," either. The other classic example is the dragon's breath weapon and the dragon's ability to fly. Neither ability is realistic, but we don't usually think of them as "magical." (Although, even that is open to interpretation. The MM goes on and on about how dragons are inherently magical; lair effects and regional effects are created by "the dragon's magic." So maybe they do fly by magic? Or at least breathe magic fire?) So the pact weapon could be such a thing. OTOH, I tend to interpret "this weapon counts as magical for purpose X" to mean, "this weapon is magical but purpose X is the thing we were thinking about when we wrote this rule."

That said, even if the pact weapon is not-quite-magical, it still wouldn't stack with elemental weapon. It's because I view this sentence: "In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls," as invariant with regard to sequence of events. In other words, if you conjure a pact weapon with a +1 bonus, and THEN make the pact weapon magical via a spell or other effect (the paladin has a Channel Divinity that can do it, for example), the "unless" comes into effect retroactively.

jgsugden said:

Recall that this is NOT A MAGIC WEAPON, but counts as one for several purposes. It is clear that it is not a magic weapon.

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Actually, it's not super clear; it's up to the DM to decide whether any particular effect or object is "magical" or not. I think I would agree with you on this one, because I tend to look for the actual word "magic" or a synonym, and there's nothing like that in the description of how the weapon was created. Also, you can turn magic weapons into a pact weapon, and so the created one stands sort of in contrast to that. Also also, I think casting elemental weapon on it sounds awesome. But other DMs would say that creating a weapon from thin air is very much magical, and I don't think using rules-language to argue against that is a very fruitful path.

Your pact weapon in this instance is not a magic weapon. Improved pact weapon gives it +1. Then you get +2 from casting a spell Elemental weapon. The rub is that Elemental weapon specifies that the weapon that you touch becomes a magic weapon (for the spells duration). Therefore, as improved pact weapon specifies, they would not stack.

However you read it, it doesn't stack - that's the general rule for 5e. You have an ability that gives +1 and an ability that gives +2. The better one applies (+2). There is no interpretation of 5e rules that gives you +3.

Paul Farquhar said:

However you read it, it doesn't stack - that's the general rule for 5e. You have an ability that gives +1 and an ability that gives +2. The better one applies (+2). There is no interpretation of 5e rules that gives you +3.

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There is absolutely no such rule. The actual general rule is the exact opposite - everything stacks.

There is a exception where you are applying two bonuses of the same name you take the more powerful instead of stacking. This was originally only for spells, listed in the PHB, but it was made into a general rule and is now in the DMG Errata.

Here's the rule:

Chapter 8
Combining Game Effects (p. 252). This is a new subsection at the end of the “Combat” section:
Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.

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This ^^. It's why so many spells and effects that give a bonus to attack/damage explicitly say that they don't stack with magic weapon bonuses.