Is Mike Mearls Happy Hour still a thing? - Page 7
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eubani View Post
    Consequences for ones actions is not being picked on.
    It appears to me that more than a few people were arguing that Mearls should face consequences for someone else's actions. It seems that people looking for something about which to be outraged have found Zak, who provides plenty of transgression to fuel that fire. The problem is that Zak is the sort of person you can't really bully, because he doesn't seem to care about anyone else's opinion of him and he will gleefully and aggressively go after people who speak out against him. That leaves Mike, a genuinely decent and pleasant guy who can be (and, I'm sure, has been) hurt by the vitriol hurled at him recently, and WotC which is a company that seems to prioritise the expression of trendy and modern social values.

    One of the reasons 5e is such a runaway success is that WotC took the time to reach out to the OSR crowd and find out what made OSR products popular. After all, the objective of 5e was to give the D&D market what we wanted to buy. At the time, the reasonable (in my opinion) belief was that if the D&D brand was to be revived, the focus needed to be on the quality of the product as a game system, and not on trying to only work with people who check all the right boxes for social values and enlightened behavior. I've never played a game using one of Zak's products, but the one thing I know about them is they were popular and well received. He can be a scumbag and still make a good product.

    In the end, Hasbro almost certainly is delighted with the end result of consulting with the OSR game designers, including Zak. The resulting product has outperformed their most ambitious hopes, and they're very happy indeed with the performance of the entire team, including Mike. They are also a soulless corporation that is entirely willing to throw a valuable employee--one who has made them truckloads of money--under the bus to help the marketing department recruit and appease the "influencers" that seem to drive sales these days. That's why I worry about Mike--I know he's a good guy and a valuable cornerstone of the D&D team, and I know that the folks that sign the checks all know that. I also have no confidence that they would hesitate to offer him up on the altar of social media as a conspicuous display of en vogue social values.
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  2. #62
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    not a useful post.
    Last edited by pogre; Tuesday, 14th May, 2019 at 03:29 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by epithet View Post
    It appears to me that more than a few people were arguing that Mearls should face consequences for someone else's actions. It seems that people looking for something about which to be outraged have found Zak, who provides plenty of transgression to fuel that fire. The problem is that Zak is the sort of person you can't really bully, because he doesn't seem to care about anyone else's opinion of him and he will gleefully and aggressively go after people who speak out against him. That leaves Mike, a genuinely decent and pleasant guy who can be (and, I'm sure, has been) hurt by the vitriol hurled at him recently, and WotC which is a company that seems to prioritise the expression of trendy and modern social values.

    One of the reasons 5e is such a runaway success is that WotC took the time to reach out to the OSR crowd and find out what made OSR products popular. After all, the objective of 5e was to give the D&D market what we wanted to buy. At the time, the reasonable (in my opinion) belief was that if the D&D brand was to be revived, the focus needed to be on the quality of the product as a game system, and not on trying to only work with people who check all the right boxes for social values and enlightened behavior. I've never played a game using one of Zak's products, but the one thing I know about them is they were popular and well received. He can be a scumbag and still make a good product.

    In the end, Hasbro almost certainly is delighted with the end result of consulting with the OSR game designers, including Zak. The resulting product has outperformed their most ambitious hopes, and they're very happy indeed with the performance of the entire team, including Mike. They are also a soulless corporation that is entirely willing to throw a valuable employee--one who has made them truckloads of money--under the bus to help the marketing department recruit and appease the "influencers" that seem to drive sales these days. That's why I worry about Mike--I know he's a good guy and a valuable cornerstone of the D&D team, and I know that the folks that sign the checks all know that. I also have no confidence that they would hesitate to offer him up on the altar of social media as a conspicuous display of en vogue social values.
    Careful. Your bias is showing just a teeny bit there. I'd argue that removing Zak S's name from a book and refusing to have anything to do with him after it's definitively shown that he is a scumbag, is hardly throwing "a valuable employee... under the bus" to "appease the influencers".

    Funny how refusing to work with abusers and whatnot is "en vogue social values".
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by epithet View Post
    That leaves Mike, a genuinely decent and pleasant guy who can be (and, I'm sure, has been) hurt by the vitriol hurled at him recently (...) That's why I worry about Mike--I know he's a good guy and a valuable cornerstone of the D&D team, and I know that the folks that sign the checks all know that. I also have no confidence that they would hesitate to offer him up on the altar of social media as a conspicuous display of en vogue social values.
    That describes my feelings toward this situation pretty well. We can still discuss D&D and share insights from the other members of the team, surely, but this Mike Mearls quarantine just makes the discussion much poorer than it could be. I don't know who's gaining anything from this whole situation, but I have a hard time believing that "the D&D community" could be seen as a reasonable answer.

  5. #65
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    Lets wait a week. The silence probably coincides with the preparaition of the next big event. IIRC the happy hour was to go on hiatus anyway. Mearls was at Gary Con so that just leaves twitter. And twitter is a very dangerous form of communication.

  6. #66
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    Twitter is a clear example of nominative determinism.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by epithet View Post
    It appears to me that more than a few people were arguing that Mearls should face consequences for someone else's actions. It seems that people looking for something about which to be outraged have found Zak, who provides plenty of transgression to fuel that fire. The problem is that Zak is the sort of person you can't really bully, because he doesn't seem to care about anyone else's opinion of him and he will gleefully and aggressively go after people who speak out against him. That leaves Mike, a genuinely decent and pleasant guy who can be (and, I'm sure, has been) hurt by the vitriol hurled at him recently, and WotC which is a company that seems to prioritise the expression of trendy and modern social values.

    One of the reasons 5e is such a runaway success is that WotC took the time to reach out to the OSR crowd and find out what made OSR products popular. After all, the objective of 5e was to give the D&D market what we wanted to buy. At the time, the reasonable (in my opinion) belief was that if the D&D brand was to be revived, the focus needed to be on the quality of the product as a game system, and not on trying to only work with people who check all the right boxes for social values and enlightened behavior. I've never played a game using one of Zak's products, but the one thing I know about them is they were popular and well received. He can be a scumbag and still make a good product.

    In the end, Hasbro almost certainly is delighted with the end result of consulting with the OSR game designers, including Zak. The resulting product has outperformed their most ambitious hopes, and they're very happy indeed with the performance of the entire team, including Mike. They are also a soulless corporation that is entirely willing to throw a valuable employee--one who has made them truckloads of money--under the bus to help the marketing department recruit and appease the "influencers" that seem to drive sales these days. That's why I worry about Mike--I know he's a good guy and a valuable cornerstone of the D&D team, and I know that the folks that sign the checks all know that. I also have no confidence that they would hesitate to offer him up on the altar of social media as a conspicuous display of en vogue social values.
    Mike forwarding the evidence and complaints to Zak S was not someone else's actions, those actions and poor decisions were his own. The resulting anger after the what was considered a poor apology and failing to take ownership were the natural consequences.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eubani View Post
    Mike forwarding the evidence and complaints to Zak S was not someone else's actions, those actions and poor decisions were his own. The resulting anger after the what was considered a poor apology and failing to take ownership were the natural consequences.
    Two caveats before my reply: 1. I have been a casual observer of this incident, starting only after it became a public incident. 2. I dont condone what Zak did, nor do I have any particular attachment to Mearls.

    In the several threads and articles Ive read about this, Ive seen people repeatedly accuse Mearls of sharing that info, and Ive repeatedly seen others calling it hearsay and speculation. I have never seen any proof that Mearls did that. If he did, thats indeed not a good thing, but hindsight is 20/20 and he may not have realized exactly how bad a thing it would turn out to be.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hussar View Post
    Careful. Your bias is showing just a teeny bit there. I'd argue that removing Zak S's name from a book and refusing to have anything to do with him after it's definitively shown that he is a scumbag, is hardly throwing "a valuable employee... under the bus" to "appease the influencers".

    Funny how refusing to work with abusers and whatnot is "en vogue social values".
    The valuable employee is Mike. Whether a consultant or a play tester, Zak doesnt appear to have ever been an employee, and striking a credit from new editions of the PHB is hardly throwing someone under the bus.

    The idea that a company should avoid even an arms-length cooperation with a scumbag is a relatively new one, largely the result of social media.

  10. #70
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    It's not just the Happy Hour that disappeared, but Unearthed Arcana as well. Supposedly that moved from monthly to just "when needed." But there was word that the next UA would be an expansion on the Artificer, and wellllllll........ it's been 3 months since the latest Artificer

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