If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
Page 1 of 168 123456789101151101 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 1673
  1. #1
    Member
    Greater Elemental (Lvl 23)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    London England
    Posts
    18,484

    If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?

    I've been setting it as their 'Passive Deception' DC. What do you do?
    XP ClaytonCross gave XP for this post

  2. #2
    Member
    Lama (Lvl 13)

    Giltonio_Santos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Belo Horizonte, Brazil
    Posts
    884
    I believe that should be a persuasion roll for the NPC, with a base DC of 10. You can decrease the DC to something as low as an automatic success (DC 0) if characters are in friendly terms, or increase it up to a DC of 20 if the interaction happens under an atmosphere of strong hostility.

    EDIT: I would also apply the PC's insight skill as a negative modifier to the persuasion roll. Insightfulness should make you more adept at detecting sincerity.
    Last edited by Giltonio_Santos; Saturday, 23rd March, 2019 at 01:53 AM.
    XP MarkB, Tazawa gave XP for this post

  3. #3
    Member
    Lama (Lvl 13)

    GlassJaw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    East Prov, RI
    Posts
    4,591
    If a PC asks to roll Insight against an NPC telling the truth, I say "you don't suspect he's lying" or "he seems to be telling the truth" - something along those lines - regardless of what the PC rolled.
    XP aco175, MechaPilot, Greenstone.Walker, mrrockitt, Siriak gave XP for this post

  4. #4
    Member
    Lama (Lvl 13)

    GlassJaw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    East Prov, RI
    Posts
    4,591
    Quote Originally Posted by Giltonio_Santos View Post
    I believe that should be a persuasion roll for the NPC, with a base DC of 10. You can decrease the DC to something as low as an automatic success (DC 0) if characters are in friendly terms, or increase it up to a DC of 20 if the interaction happens under an atmosphere of strong hostility.

    EDIT: I would also apply the PC's insight skill as a negative modifier to the persuasion roll. Insightfulness should make you more adept at detecting sincerity.
    The only time I roll a social skill for an NPC opposed by a PC is Deception. A player is always the final arbiter as to whether their character is persuaded or intimidated.
    XP pukunui, Lucas Yew, doctorbadwolf gave XP for this post

  5. #5
    Member
    Titan (Lvl 27)



    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Medellin, Colombia
    Posts
    6,350
    I likely don't set a DC. The character succeeds, no roll, perhaps because the truthful NPC exhibits no body language, speech habit, or change in mannerisms that suggest a deception.
    XP Charlaquin, Imaculata, pukunui, DM Dave1, BookBarbarian and 1 others gave XP for this post

  6. #6
    Member
    Time Agent (Lvl 24)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    4,271
    This is yet another reason why using a skill to "detect" truth or lies is a terrible idea.

  7. #7
    Member
    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)



    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    2,442
    Quote Originally Posted by iserith View Post
    I likely don't set a DC. The character succeeds, no roll, perhaps because the truthful NPC exhibits no body language, speech habit, or change in mannerisms that suggest a deception.
    This. If an NPC is telling the truth, they exhibit no signs that they are lying, therefore there is no uncertainty if a PC attempts to discern whether or not they are lying by observing their behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfcrusher View Post
    This is yet another reason why using a skill to "detect" truth or lies is a terrible idea.
    And this. When an NPC lies to a PC, I roll for the NPC against the PCs passive Wisdom (Insight). On a failure, I tell the PCs what they notice - for instance, that the NPC is having difficulty maintaining eye contact and their brow has a faint glimmer of sweat or something. On a success, I let the NPCs statement stand on its own. In either case, it is up to the player whether their character believes they are being lied to or not.

  8. #8
    Member
    The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)

    jgsugden's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Soon to be Fort Mill, SC
    Posts
    3,599
    This is the way I do it:

    When a PC attempts to use a skill without spending an action, they generally do so "passively", meaning they add 10 to their skill and use that as the result (with a +/- 5 for advantage/disadvantage). If they take an action to perform the skill, they get to roll a d20, but their "passive" score is a floor for their result unless there is time pressure or other challenges that make things difficult.

    When a player wishes to sound convince someone they are being honest, they may roll deception or persuasion rolls. For persuasion, sounding sincere when telling the truth is DC 15 or the observers passive insight, whichever is lower. For deception, the DC is the observer's passive insight.

  9. #9
    Insight is great for noticing if an ally is charmed and acting strangely. If you know the person, you get advantage on your passive check or roll.

    Regarding the OP:
    If a PC is unsure whether an NPC is being honest but that NPC is actually being honest, I roll the dice behind the dm screen and then Tell the player the truth that NPC seems to be sincere. I dont even bother looking at the dice roll. I like adding that little bit of uncertainty. The fact that they are asking for a roll shows they are suspicious. Either the player will learn to trust the NPC (because of in game actions)or they wont but I wont just tell him, oh yeah, hes totally trustworthy.

  10. #10
    Member
    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)



    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    2,442
    Quote Originally Posted by TaranTheWanderer View Post
    If a PC is unsure whether an NPC is being honest but that NPC is actually being honest, I roll the dice behind the dm screen and then Tell the player the truth that NPC seems to be sincere. I dont even bother looking at the dice roll. I like adding that little bit of uncertainty.
    Query: It would seem to me that not looking at the die before announcing the result would remove the uncertainty that you roll the die in order to add; is this a bug or a feature of your approach?

Similar Threads

  1. EN Story telling
    By megamania in forum Story Hour
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: Tuesday, 22nd July, 2003, 08:36 PM
  2. EN Story telling
    By megamania in forum *General Roleplaying Games Discussion
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: Sunday, 20th July, 2003, 12:20 PM
  3. Telling your FR god to sod off
    By BiggusGeekus in forum *Pathfinder & Starfinder
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Saturday, 7th June, 2003, 12:46 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •