Alternate XP systems

Brashnir2

First Post
My group has mostly used Milestone leveling in 5E since we tended to chafe at the notion that killing things made you stronger, which tended to lead to situations where players would make moves to gain XP mechanically rather than doing things organically in the moment.

However, we also found that we missed the notion of using XP as a motivational tool the DM could employ. As a result, in recent sessions I have switched to a new method which has gone over extremely well in our group, so I thought I'd share it.

I call it Simple XP. The basic premise is that it always costs a player 100XP to gain a level. We tried 10, but it wasn't quite granular enough to get the desired result.

Players gain XP in-session at the table for doing things that the DM enjoys, respects, or feels was in-character enough for an award. Such things can be good roleplaying, rejecting metagame knowledge because the character wouldn't know the info, coming up with a clever plan, or completing a personal goal. The list goes on, but I think you get the basic idea.

And then at the end of the session, the DM awards a lump sum of XP to everyone based on how much was accomplished in the session. You can tweak this depending on how quickly you like your players to level, but my general rule of thumb is that everyone gets 10XP for showing up to the session, and +10XP for every party goal completed during the session. (maybe 20 or 30 XP for a particularly important goal) This allows the DM a chance to throttle party XP in such a way that they generally end up leveling in line with where the milestones would be anyway, while also offering the psychological bonus of awarding XP.


It's not a perfect system. A couple potential issues have arisen, which have been discussed with my group. The first is that it is possible for a player to level before another player. I think with the way the math works in 5E, this is OK. My table agrees.

Another potential issue is that players who miss sessions might fall behind. I always give XP to any missing players equal to the lowest number that any present player received to keep them in line with the rest of the group.

A third potential issue that we didn't find until we tried it is that players found the bookkeeping annoying - especially the ones who were using tablets for their character sheets on D&D Beyond. After the first session, I pillaged a board game (7 Wonders) for some coin tokens, and placed them into some finger bowls around the table. So now, every time I tell a player, "take an XP," They grab a coin. At the end of the session, they update their sheets with the coins + the session XP. This has completely eliminated the bookkeeping annoyance.


As for the positives, I find it very gratifying as a DM when a player who may have been a mechanics-only bystander in RP-heavy scenes starts to participate because they know that there could be an XP award for taking part. This has led to a lot more inter-party chatter at the table, which has led to a lot of fun moments that otherwise may have been missed.

And as much as players get that psychological endorphin rush from getting XP, I find that as a DM, I get it just as much from giving it out. As this has gone on, I've been awarding more and more for little things as my players have gotten more into it.



Does anybody else have any other alternate XP systems they have used to good effect? Can you explain how they work and why they add to fun at the table?
 

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Fanaelialae

Legend
This is the system I'm currently using.

Characters require 100 XP times their level to level up (100 to go from 1st to 2nd, 200 to go from 2nd to 3rd, 300 to go from 3rd to 4th, etc.) It's the 3.x progression with one less zero. The reason for this is that it renders each experience point 1% of a level times your level. I wanted a catch-up mechanic, since even though I award the same XP to all players, the Deck of Many Things (or some variant thereof) will usually make an appearance.

Challenges are typically combat, social, or exploration. Each challenge has a level (which is its level appropriateness, but usually is just the average party level). I also give a rating from 1 to 10 which is a combination of the difficulty of the encounter and how well the party handled it. Its XP value is that rating times its level. For example, a party might have some great banter with some NPCs in the tavern, but it's probably not worth more than 10 XP since it's level 1. Whereas talking their way past a very dangerous monster is worth 10 XP times the level of the challenge the monster poses.

Because some of my players really love to hack, I added an additional layer to combat. Monsters are only rated 1 to 5 (easy to double deadly). However, they also grants a rolling bonus of 1 to 3, depending on the difficulty of the encounter. At the end of the current encounter, the current bonus is added to the encounter rating to determine how much it is worth, and then the bonus from the encounter is added to the rolling bonus. A short rest reduces the rolling bonus by 1, and a long rest resets it to zero. When they sleep, the players have the option (as a party) to choose whether they gain the benefits of a rest or not. As such, when they want to kill monsters, they can get that rolling bonus fairly high by pushing through encounters without resting. But if they don't want to fight, they know they can gain a healthy amount of XP by talking or sneaking past the creatures.

Finally, I grant them 5 to 25 times their level XP for endgame, which encompasses showing up, how well I feel they did overall, and goals accomplished.

I like the system because as long as I am awarding level appropriate XP (which is most of the time) I know that 1 rating is 1% of a level. As to why I don't do individual awards, it's been my experience that while it can be a great motivational tool in pursuit of the high award (it drew me out of my shell when I first started) it can also cause significant hard feelings for those who get the low award. So, nowadays, I just consider the groups overall efforts when awarding XP. Effectively, contributing at the table can only help the group's overall award.
 

Sadras

Legend
As for the positives, I find it very gratifying as a DM when a player who may have been a mechanics-only bystander in RP-heavy scenes starts to participate because they know that there could be an XP award for taking part. This has led to a lot more inter-party chatter at the table, which has led to a lot of fun moments that otherwise may have been missed.

And as much as players get that psychological endorphin rush from getting XP, I find that as a DM, I get it just as much from giving it out. As this has gone on, I've been awarding more and more for little things as my players have gotten more into it.

IMO, this right here represents one of the primary reasons of why an XP-giving system is better than simple milestone leveling.

At our table I as DM keep track of the party experience on our Obsidian Portal Admin page. Everyone has the same value as it is considered every character shares in the value of the RPing, combat and knowledge gained within a party. XP-giving moments (other than combat) are discussed at the table after the session. The only major distinction I have to the book is:

Short Campaign: Standard model.
Long Campaign: XP tally is reduced to 0 after each level up.
 

5ekyu

Hero
My group has mostly used Milestone leveling in 5E since we tended to chafe at the notion that killing things made you stronger, which tended to lead to situations where players would make moves to gain XP mechanically rather than doing things organically in the moment.

However, we also found that we missed the notion of using XP as a motivational tool the DM could employ. As a result, in recent sessions I have switched to a new method which has gone over extremely well in our group, so I thought I'd share it.

I call it Simple XP. The basic premise is that it always costs a player 100XP to gain a level. We tried 10, but it wasn't quite granular enough to get the desired result.

Players gain XP in-session at the table for doing things that the DM enjoys, respects, or feels was in-character enough for an award. Such things can be good roleplaying, rejecting metagame knowledge because the character wouldn't know the info, coming up with a clever plan, or completing a personal goal. The list goes on, but I think you get the basic idea.

And then at the end of the session, the DM awards a lump sum of XP to everyone based on how much was accomplished in the session. You can tweak this depending on how quickly you like your players to level, but my general rule of thumb is that everyone gets 10XP for showing up to the session, and +10XP for every party goal completed during the session. (maybe 20 or 30 XP for a particularly important goal) This allows the DM a chance to throttle party XP in such a way that they generally end up leveling in line with where the milestones would be anyway, while also offering the psychological bonus of awarding XP.


It's not a perfect system. A couple potential issues have arisen, which have been discussed with my group. The first is that it is possible for a player to level before another player. I think with the way the math works in 5E, this is OK. My table agrees.

Another potential issue is that players who miss sessions might fall behind. I always give XP to any missing players equal to the lowest number that any present player received to keep them in line with the rest of the group.

A third potential issue that we didn't find until we tried it is that players found the bookkeeping annoying - especially the ones who were using tablets for their character sheets on D&D Beyond. After the first session, I pillaged a board game (7 Wonders) for some coin tokens, and placed them into some finger bowls around the table. So now, every time I tell a player, "take an XP," They grab a coin. At the end of the session, they update their sheets with the coins + the session XP. This has completely eliminated the bookkeeping annoyance.


As for the positives, I find it very gratifying as a DM when a player who may have been a mechanics-only bystander in RP-heavy scenes starts to participate because they know that there could be an XP award for taking part. This has led to a lot more inter-party chatter at the table, which has led to a lot of fun moments that otherwise may have been missed.

And as much as players get that psychological endorphin rush from getting XP, I find that as a DM, I get it just as much from giving it out. As this has gone on, I've been awarding more and more for little things as my players have gotten more into it.



Does anybody else have any other alternate XP systems they have used to good effect? Can you explain how they work and why they add to fun at the table?
We use session xp. Tiers 3-4 sessions and the group levels. Everyone levels at the same time.

Like you referenced, we do not want to have xp encourage in-character actions.

We want the players to decide for their character in the moment, in the character, from that POV not looking at some checklist of campaign goals or list of " things that make the GM like me."

That means sometimes they rush in with little or no plan - if that is in character - instead or trying to tick off the clever plan xp counter. Sometimes they quip and banter, sometimes they grumble- depends on what's up.

But one key is this - they expect to see (and do see in practice) the outcomes and rewards in play in the game world, not in xp. Good roleplaying, clever plans, completing personal goals show results in play, drive outcomes, open new doors, etc. The "motivations" to do those are the same as everywhere else - make thing happen, get the outcomes you want etc.

The lizardfolk druid decides to ho speak to the lizard woman "farmer" outside of town (no obvious links to story or plot or goals) not because its gonna earn them 10xp for roleplaying, it because they think it will be fun and very in-character. They later decide on a short side trek to investigate the special tree shrine not linked to the current story or plot cuz itsvin character... not for the 10xp. Both cases wind up with interesting results, potential allies, potential new plots and events. They see results in-gsme, not in the token jar of xp.

They could have passed both by, ignored them, moved on down the plots-n-goals do checklist but... woulda been less fun and less beneficial long term.

Works for us.
 

Sometimes I have thought about an alternative, not too complex, for XPs reward and challenge rating for encounters where a faction has a special advantage, for example Mulan causing a snow avalanche against Hun army or shooting a fire arrow over the Valyrian oil on the water to destroy enemy fleet, or Mowgli starting a stampede of oxes against tiger Shere-Khan to kill it.

An idea has been to give as reward actions points as the ones from d20 Modern.

Other idea is changing the leveling up, a division into two branches: level of power and level of ego. The level of power would be like the stats of a character from a videogame or wargame. The level of ego would all her memory: known languages, crating or arts proficiencies, social skills, studies. Using as example the sci-fi serie "Altered Carbono", the ego would all memory loaded in a cortical stack but there isn't yet a new body to resleeve.

But this idea needs a lot of playtesting to get the right balance. What if any PCs are primitive barbarians, but others are mecha pilots or superheroes? A gnome or a goblin driving/riding/piloting the steampunk version of Mazinger Z or a Dinobot would be a true headache. How should be the XPs reward if it's too difficult, or easy?
 

Sadras

Legend
Using as example the sci-fi serie "Altered Carbono", the ego would all memory loaded in a cortical stack but there isn't yet a new body to resleeve.

Bold Emphasis mine - also known as Alterado Carbon or Alterado Carbono. :p

Speaking about re-sleeving check out Eclipse Phase.
 

Brashnir2

First Post
This is the system I'm currently using.
I like the system because as long as I am awarding level appropriate XP (which is most of the time) I know that 1 rating is 1% of a level. As to why I don't do individual awards, it's been my experience that while it can be a great motivational tool in pursuit of the high award (it drew me out of my shell when I first started) it can also cause significant hard feelings for those who get the low award. So, nowadays, I just consider the groups overall efforts when awarding XP. Effectively, contributing at the table can only help the group's overall award.

The first part is Why I went with my system. making it 100 XP makes it really easy to regulate how quickly the party levels.

While it can be true that the low rewards can cause players to be upset, I also try to go out of my way to give XP to a player who is a bit less active to keep everyone around the same XP. I have one player who is fairly new to the group, and therefore not as comfortable as everyone else, so I do try to go out of my way to give him XP when he does engage. I also tend to do a lot of "everyone take an XP for that." The flat math of 5E means that having someone a level behind for a session isn't a big deal, but I do take lengths to avoid a situation where anyone is so far behind that it's more than a single session gap.

I've also found that having the players "spend" their XP to level up also gives me the ability to create options which allow them to spend it in other ways. I'm planning for my next campaign arc to give out some magic items (similar to the Vestiges of Divergence from the Tal'Dorei Campaign Setting, but custom-built for each of my players) which require the user to spend XP to unlock the next item tier.
 

KenNYC

Explorer
I just quit a campaign because there was no XP. Milestone XP seems like I have no input into the progress of my character. I could kill Orcus tomorrow, but if the DM is not prepared for me to go to 2nd level then I am not going. Basically, I feel like an NPC since it is a character and I am a non-player when it comes to how my character progresses. The DM wrote a story, he wrote an entire world, and I am just needed to hit my marks. I am playing his character, we all are.
 

A short rest reduces the rolling bonus by 1, and a long rest resets it to zero. When they sleep, the players have the option (as a party) to choose whether they gain the benefits of a rest or not.
That seems very meta-gamey. What is the in-game reality which this mechanic is supposed to reflect? How does a character manage to sleep, without gaining any benefits of a rest?
 

5ekyu

Hero
I just quit a campaign because there was no XP. Milestone XP seems like I have no input into the progress of my character. I could kill Orcus tomorrow, but if the DM is not prepared for me to go to 2nd level then I am not going. Basically, I feel like an NPC since it is a character and I am a non-player when it comes to how my character progresses. The DM wrote a story, he wrote an entire world, and I am just needed to hit my marks. I am playing his character, we all are.
It's hard to imagine a campaign where killing orcas was a possible outcome for a session but it wasnt a milestone.

That said, a lot of what you describe in that post seems to be bringing in a whole lot of stuff that has nothing to do with being handed xp or not.
 

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