Chinese Government Burns Cthulhu RPG Print Run

sphere830 · Mar 29, 2019

Let's be honest about all of the "isms." This is a totalitarian move over industries with no organized labor. Shame on publishers that are willing to lower overhead and do business where workers have no rights; their are other competitive markets that do. This should be a major lesson to consumers that support publishing in places like China. And that is not a slur on China, they are transparent about this kind of authoritarian governance. This is why you have to have a democratic state regulating, through strong collective bargaining on the ground, working class spaces.

Umbran · Mar 29, 2019

Dannyalcatraz said:
Simply put, if people want game stores or stores that sell gaming products within driving distance of where they live, they have to spend $$$ in those stores. Personally, I spend @70% of my gaming dollars locally.

Yep. Now, you see, here's where we wind up with conflicts.

In the past year, I spent about 75% of my gaming dollars not locally, but not on Amazon. Much of my gaming money has gone to Kickstarter projects, and some more is spent ordering directly from the publisher's website. I am pretty sure there's a strong argument that I am helping myself while helping others by making it easier for content creators to create and make something more like a living wage, specifically by cutting out middlemen and helping cover the development financing of works.

We can't have it both ways - if nothing else, I can't spend 75% of my gaming money on Kickstarter and 75% in a FLGS. That math fails. I am helping others by supporting the FLGS, but I am also helping others by cutting out those same retail middlemen? How, pray tell, does that work?

Do you watch "The Good Place"? If not, you, of all people, should, because I think you'd love it! But anyway, Season 3, Episode 11, "The Book Of Dougs" is relevant. It notes that the world is so complex at this point that a typical person on the ground actually can't suss out the consequences of their actions - there are too many variables and too much distance between cause and effect. Then attaching moral or ethical value on the actor for results they really can't predict or control, is not really fair.

For example - we are talking about how we should boycott Chinese manufacturing, because the Chinese are horrible to their workers, right?

So, what money are the Chinese workers using to pay for food, if we withdraw the money from their manufacturing? Hm? Does the kid of a Chinese worker have to go hungry, because I, who don't live in his country, decide his government treats him poorly? How does that work out, ethically?

That's a rhetorical question, not really to be answered here. But it demonstrates how *none* of these issues are clear-cut or simple, and how armchair economists and ethicists on a message board dedicated to how we pretend to be elves are probably not the best to answer them.

lowkey13 · Mar 29, 2019

*Deleted by user*

Umbran · Mar 29, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Personally, I reached that conclusion a long time ago, and it allowed me to go the other way. Evil will always triumph because good is not just stupid, but so very very hard!

Well, yes. It is thermodynamics, really. Being constructive is hard, destroying is easy.

I have found it preferable, when presented with the choice of two evils, to choose both.

Of course. Then they can fight it out, and you sneak off with the treasure.

Or that's the plan. But with that name, in the end, you end up chewing on Thor's hammer, 'cuz that's how these stories go.

Cergorach · Mar 29, 2019

LordNightwinter said:
Take note out there you socialism/communism lovers. This is what happens when you give your freedom away or lose it and let the government have control.

Take note out there you capitalists lovers and Corporatocracy advocates. This is what happens when you give in to your (corporate) greed and let states directed by rich entities let ruin/interfere with foreign entities...

Look at a bit of history before you take a swipe at the Red Manace. There is a reason why China is in it's current state and you can follow that back to Western influence...

Is China doing things that we can't comprehend or agree with, sure... Are we in the same cultural or population situation as China, most certainly not! Most Europeans think that a LOT of Americans are nuts! We know that the French are nuts... ;-) Deal with the cultural differences, your rage is not effective, it's more likely to take two steps back instead of one forward.

Morrus · Mar 29, 2019

Folks, this thread is about an RPG book being destroyed by the Chinese government. While that needs a little leeway in political discussion, is is absolutely *not* open season for soapboxes about your preferred brand of politics, or vice versa. Stay on target.

generic · Mar 29, 2019

I suspect that the sourcebook presented China and Chinese culture from the perspective of either oppression or destruction by other nations.

Just my 0.02 cents (Yuan?)

Istbor · Mar 29, 2019

Aebir-Toril said:
I suspect that the sourcebook presented China and Chinese culture from the perspective of either oppression or destruction by other nations.

Just my 0.02 cents (Yuan?)

Or maybe Cthulhu runs rough-shod over China and they didn't like that depiction? That's what I am going to believe.

generic · Mar 29, 2019

Istbor said:
Or maybe Cthulhu runs rough-shod over China and they didn't like that depiction? That's what I am going to believe.

Probably.

Maybe Shub-Niggurath slew everyone in a certain region, gave birth to a bunch of pseudo-racist Lovecraftian horrors, and continued to initiate WWII.

Dannyalcatraz · Mar 30, 2019

Umbran said:
Yep. Now, you see, here's where we wind up with conflicts.

In the past year, I spent about 75% of my gaming dollars not locally, but not on Amazon. Much of my gaming money has gone to Kickstarter projects, and some more is spent ordering directly from the publisher's website. I am pretty sure there's a strong argument that I am helping myself while helping others by making it easier for content creators to create and make something more like a living wage, specifically by cutting out middlemen and helping cover the development financing of works.

We can't have it both ways - if nothing else, I can't spend 75% of my gaming money on Kickstarter and 75% in a FLGS. That math fails. I am helping others by supporting the FLGS, but I am also helping others by cutting out those same retail middlemen? How, pray tell, does that work?

Do you watch "The Good Place"? If not, you, of all people, should, because I think you'd love it! But anyway, Season 3, Episode 11, "The Book Of Dougs" is relevant. It notes that the world is so complex at this point that a typical person on the ground actually can't suss out the consequences of their actions - there are too many variables and too much distance between cause and effect. Then attaching moral or ethical value on the actor for results they really can't predict or control, is not really fair.

For example - we are talking about how we should boycott Chinese manufacturing, because the Chinese are horrible to their workers, right?

So, what money are the Chinese workers using to pay for food, if we withdraw the money from their manufacturing? Hm? Does the kid of a Chinese worker have to go hungry, because I, who don't live in his country, decide his government treats him poorly? How does that work out, ethically?

That's a rhetorical question, not really to be answered here. But it demonstrates how *none* of these issues are clear-cut or simple, and how armchair economists and ethicists on a message board dedicated to how we pretend to be elves are probably not the best to answer them.

From the consumer side of the equation, I’m not saying that each RPG hobbyist needs to spend X% of their income in physical stores or the hobby is doomed. Indeed, I would assert that by buying directly from the publisher via Kickstarters (or for some, their own webstores), you’re probably also practicing enlightened self interest for the exact reason you posted- the publisher gets a higher cut of the sale price.

But that business model won’t work for every prublosher or consumer. (And neither will the traditional brick & mortar retail model.)

So there is probably some minimum critical mass of physical retail outlets necessary to keep the hobby as we know it afloat.

From the producer side of the equation, the drive to cut costs is perfectly rational. But like every other business decision, cheaper production carries with it the increase of certain risks: quality control, deadline accuracy, production flexibility, production slowdowns or cessation due to infrastructure deficiencies or political volatility, etc.

Overemphasize low production costs, and you might face a situation where your product doesn’t get to market at all. If all your proeduction facilities are in faraway places many of us wouldn’t want to live, there may come a time when there are no domestic alternatives.

A classic example comes from banana farming. At one point, the Gros Michael was the #1 banana sold in the world, accounting for more than 90% of the world’s consumption. It wasn’t the tastiest banana in the world, but it was the easiest to get to market and among the slowest to spoil, so it was cheaper than most alternatives away from places removed from native banana territory. But a fungus wiped out nearly all of the Gros Michaels. They’ve nearly gone extinct, only existing in their original habitats.

This let the Cavendish come to the fore- like the GM before it, it dominated the market for the exact same reasons. It’s been king since the 1950s. And like the GM before it, the Cavendish is currently being obliterated by a fungus.

See also the American guitar-making, textiles and electronics industries.