L
lowkey13
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As best I'm aware [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] and I exercise no influence over the hobby-gaming publishing industry other than as participants in the consumer side of the market. Whose fun do you think we're ruining? Are you saying we're morally obliged to pay for or advocate for boxed text modules so that others can derive their perceived beneift from them?you seem to be going out of your way to ruin other people's fun by demanding that modules be written to your preferences, which are not shared by other people (and which do not matter to you).
(2) If the preference for boxed-text was universalised then I wouldn't be able to purchase excellent products like the Prince Valiant Episode Book. Nor would I have the use of such classic, box-free scenarios as B2. Part of what makes B2 usable by me is that it presents a place (the Keep) and a series of situations (the proximity of the Cves; the evil cleric; etc) but no pre-supposed plot in the form of boxed text.
James Introcaso is my new favorite person. I thought he was just a dude who hangs out with Johnn Four, but it turns out he's EVERYWHERE. Mark my words, James Introcaso is the Shawn Merwin of our generation.
And I will repeat and reiterate what other commenters have said regarding the last sentence I have quoted here- there is nothing necessarily that pre-supposes plot when there is boxed text regarding a room description; you appear to be shoehorning an argument that you have about RPGs in general into a thread that is not about that. Stop trying to make fetch happen, and please stop trying to turn this into a debate about preferred styles of RPGing, especially given that you don't seem to be playing much D&D or 5e or using the new modules for those systems (which is what this discussion is largely about).
I mean, if you are- if you regularly playing 5e, and have a lot to say about the future APs, then great- let's chat about that. We can start with a discussion of the use in APs, or just LMoP.
Can I vote for this one?* LE's statement could be construed as topic drift (either because it plain is or because it isn't an outright truism) but isn't absolute topic drift. The only way it becomes actual topic drift is if someone voices their disagreement and related conversation ensues.
Then start a thread!Can I just say that I'd much rather be talking about the genesis of GMing and then discussing how that hooks into the utility (or the problem) of "boxed text"?
And see this is why when I was 10 years old we thought B2 sucked and was useless. Because we didn't know what to do with it.Nor would I have the use of such classic, box-free scenarios as B2. Part of what makes B2 usable by me is that it presents a place (the Keep) and a series of situations (the proximity of the Cves; the evil cleric; etc) but no pre-supposed plot in the form of boxed text.
To add some clarification, I pay them to do that, but I pay them to do it well. Any old sod can be creative and I'd argue that most of us here are probably particularly skilled at at. But we (well, we might) don't have editors and publishers and playtesters to ensure that what we are creating is particularly refined. We might have the raw information and a general idea of how we want to present it, but until we actually go out and do that we don't have a nice and refined approach.@Manbearcat, such a good example!
Well, I'll answer for my part (given that I'm advocating dot points over boxed text): I pay adventure designers to think of situations (characters, motivations, places pregnant with phantastical possibility, etc) that I can't think of myself. A good recent example: Jerry D Grayson's contribution to the Prince Valiant Episode Book, The Crimson Bull. No boxed text. Here're the opening paragraphs:
EPISODE TYPE: Assistance. The heroes are asked to help deliver a bull to an ancient pagan ceremony
Begin With: It is a rainy day as the Adventurers travel down a muddy rural path. As the heroes round the bend, the see an overturned cart and scattered bodies of peasants. A single old man lies beaten and moaning against a tree. In his right hand, he holds a silken black rope tied to a large Highland red bull. The bull eyes the Adventurers passively, but does not leave the old man’s side.
I can't remember how I narrated this opening, but the resulting session was full of atmosphere and suspense and a dramatic resolution in which one of the PC knights converted the pagan wise woman to Christian worship by his demonstration of the power of St Sigobert over an evil spirit. We have only one player in our group who is a 5e player - to quote from my linked actual play post, "he was very impressed with the Crimson Bull scenario, and the uncertainty he felt right up until the end about the nature of the evil in the bull and the way it was going to resolve." He compared it favourably to the 5e treatment of magic and the supernatural.
I think atmosphere created through nicely crafted narration leans on the weakest aspect of RPGing: as narrative experiences, how is RPGing meant to compare to the well-written and edited fiction of a book or a film? Whereas I think that atmosphere created through nicely crafted situation plays to the strength of RPGs, which is providing players with the opportunity to provide their own creative, what-would-I-do-if-I-was-there responses to those situations.
Er, no. These things are quite frankly, not atmosphere. Those are all things you are doing in response to the situation you find yourself in, which is not atmosphere. Not even close. I'm actually a little befuddled how you can even argue that. The atmosphere is the "pervading tone or mood", in this case, of the room. Your decisions are a reaction to the atmosphere of the room.In your Strahd example, what creates atmosphere is not the narration, but the invitations the situation offers to my PC: Do I shut the window and block out the moonlight? (And if I entered the room by flying through the window, does that mean I'm shutting off my own path of escape?); Do I uncover the furniture; and, perhaps most importantly, Do I shatter the mirror?