Avengers: Endgame SPOILER THREAD - Page 14
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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellisir View Post
    That would highlight how the movie dropped the ball there, yeah.

    I like Endgame. It's a good movie. I don't think Banner or Hulk (who existed as a functionally separate character until this movie - another victim of the snap) were well served by it. But it's a big movie with a lot of moving parts, and not every plot point could be knocked out of the park. It's still epic.
    The merging of the two might have been a bit of fan service to comic readers who remember "Smart Hulk."

  2. #132
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    Well, I saw if finally. I can confirm it was ... a film.
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  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    Well, I saw if finally. I can confirm it was ... a film.
    Do tell Morrus.

  4. #134
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    Today, I saw the counter-argument that BW got worse treatment than Thor.

    Way back in Ultron, they turned her into a romantic interest and had her say she was a monster while revealing she couldn't have children. Not a good time to combine two angsty things as it sent the wrong message about women, having children defining their worth, and the arc she was having where she accepted her past and red ledger in Civil War.

    Now fast forward to EndGame, and she's in a who can kill themselves quicker race with Yeehaw Barton (you can search Twitter for that and find the source of this entire chain of thought) to jump off a cliff and die.

    Basically, all that growth, and she's disposable because Barton, who 20 minutes earlier was killing people of color, has children.

    Topping off that sad cake with a short bit of sad "where's Natasha" when they return, and that's it. Tony got a funeral. BW did not.

    I couldn't tell you the Russo's intent (or Whedon's) and imagine they'd argue differently. But I can see how this interpretation also makes sense and wouldn't strike some people as a good ending or handling for BW.
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryujin View Post
    The merging of the two might have been a bit of fan service to comic readers who remember "Smart Hulk."
    Oh, yeah, totally. I don't MIND that they were merged. I just don't think it was handled all that well. And most of the smart Hulk incarnations (I think there's a "Professor Hulk", and Joe Fixit, and the Maestro, and...others?) took on aspects of Hulk's personality. I didn't really see that. It was Hulk body and Banner mind. Potent, but...man. It would've been great to see Banner get really really angry.

    I suspect Ruffalo has fun with the Hulk and he might turn up a few more times.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janx View Post
    I couldn't tell you the Russo's intent (or Whedon's) and imagine they'd argue differently. But I can see how this interpretation also makes sense and wouldn't strike some people as a good ending or handling for BW.
    Yeah, when it's laid out like that...it's pretty . Hopefully the movie does her right.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janx View Post
    Today, I saw the counter-argument that BW got worse treatment than Thor.

    Way back in Ultron, they turned her into a romantic interest and had her say she was a monster while revealing she couldn't have children. Not a good time to combine two angsty things as it sent the wrong message about women, having children defining their worth, and the arc she was having where she accepted her past and red ledger in Civil War.

    Now fast forward to EndGame, and she's in a who can kill themselves quicker race with Yeehaw Barton (you can search Twitter for that and find the source of this entire chain of thought) to jump off a cliff and die.

    Basically, all that growth, and she's disposable because Barton, who 20 minutes earlier was killing people of color, has children.

    Topping off that sad cake with a short bit of sad "where's Natasha" when they return, and that's it. Tony got a funeral. BW did not.

    I couldn't tell you the Russo's intent (or Whedon's) and imagine they'd argue differently. But I can see how this interpretation also makes sense and wouldn't strike some people as a good ending or handling for BW.
    Enough time has passed that I think I'll just flat out post spoilers...now that they are out anyways.

    I think it was this thread where I commented earlier (somewhere I said it) they killed off the wrong one in that scene. With the weight of Hawkeye on himself...should have been him who died instead of BW.

    Just my thought on that one as far as the movie goes (without any thought of merchandise, toys, future series in the making...etc). For the movie, I felt it would have made a LOT more sense of Black Widow to have survived...though I think she probably could have outfought him. He had done a lot of killing of people already, and knowing that his family could be back...that's a lot of weight and guilt to have around. In some ways, the movie implies he actually was a villain for a while, while Black Widow remained a hero.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janx View Post
    Today, I saw the counter-argument that BW got worse treatment than Thor.
    Yeah. She literally fights her way to jump off a cliff and straight into the fridge.

  9. #139
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    So does past Thor now no longer have Mjolnir, since future Thor turned up and stole it and took it back to the future? And when future Thor was talking to past mum, and called Mjolnir to him, did he rip it out of past Thor's hand? Is past Thor standing around with a confused look on his face wondering where Mjolnir just flew off to?

    (I don't remember where past Thor is at that point in time?)
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  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    So does past Thor now no longer have Mjolnir, since future Thor turned up and stole it and took it back to the future? And when future Thor was talking to past mum, and called Mjolnir to him, did he rip it out of past Thor's hand? Is past Thor standing around with a confused look on his face wondering where Mjolnir just flew off to?

    (I don't remember where past Thor is at that point in time?)
    I think the 2019 avengers are relying on the 5-second Rule. So if they steal it from the past and return it right after they stole it, it's OK.

    So Cap went back in time at the end to return all the stones (and quill wakes up with a headache) along with Mjoljnir on Asgard.

    Past Thor is used to forgetting where he left his hammer, so it's no big deal.

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