Shadowrun Sixth Edition Announced! - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    1) This is a huge amount of information to process.
    2) Based on a cursory skim, they are doing a GREAT job in terms of this launch. This is a brilliantly coordinated media blitz. Hats off to Jason, Randall, and Loren, and the rest of the CGL team for that.
    3) As soon as I saw (on Twitter) that Shadowrun 6E was a thing, my immediate thought was: "Well, they'd have to try pretty hard to frag it up worse than Fifth Edition. I should know, I was one of the people that wrote Fifth Edition."
    4) As someone who fought HARD against Limits in 5E when I was on the design team, I feel vindicated to see them being given the boot in the new edition. They were and are a terrible idea.
    5) I have no idea how to feel about what they announced on the Matrix rules. It's going to depend entirely on how it's executed. The closest thing I have to insight on that is that I don't think "cyberjack" is a very cool sounding name. I think I'd think that even if it weren't just a lazy portmanteau of datajack and cyberdeck. It's been years since I've thought about this stuff but IIRC Marks were another bad Aaron Pavao idea that I'm happy to see go.
    6) What they're trying to do with Edge is super cool, and I'm interested to see how it plays out in terms of execution.
    7) "Restrictions on gear and cyberwear are reduced at character creation so you can get most anything at the start of the game ("opening up the toy box")." I read this mostly as "deckers are allowed to have cyberdecks worth using at chargen" which was another hill I nearly died on during the design of 5E. So again, I feel vindicated.
    8) "Combat will move faster and be deadlier, but also will have more flexibility due to the new Edge system." When has anyone ever complained about combat in Shadowrun not being DEADLY enough? Srsly. Not counting 1st Edition which was actually like the most padded sumo RPG of all time because of the ridiculous way that soak rolls worked.
    9) "The action economy and initiative system are getting an overhaul to speed combat, reduce analysis paralysis, and to prevent faster characters from dominating every combat encounter." As written, this SOUNDS AWESOME. I just desperately hope it doesn't MEAN "we're switching over to a hard limit of one action per character per turn because that's how D&D5E does it and have you seen how much money they're making!?!?".
    10) "Keeping with the "the Shadowrun world is sixty years and six months in our future" rule of thumb, the new system will be set in 2080." Good. It's a damn good rule of thumb. Every time I watch the new Ghost In The Shell hotness it's always "Newport City - 2029 AD" REGARDLESS of how close CURRENT YEAR is catching up to that date. It's like, really guys, we're gonna have prosthetic bodies and cyberbrains in the next ten years? REALLY?
    11) That ork with a molotov is sexy as hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retreater View Post
    Seems like a quick turnaround. I know it's been 6 years since 5th edition was first released, but it's been less than 3 since the last update/reprint as well as the release of Shadowrun: Anarchy.
    It might have something to do with the fact that Fifth Edition is fragging terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retreater View Post
    Also a quick turnaround with regards of announcement to product release (a month and a half).
    It's actually not THAT far off from how we/they did it with 5E. The freelancers learned about it at a super secret meeting and sworn to secrecy at GenCon '12, the announce was planned for GAMA Trade Show '13, and the release for Origins in June. So, there are a couple months less interval between announce and release, but I have a feeling that CGL has good reasons for doing it this way. No, I don't know what they are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Retreater View Post
    Kinda sucks because I haven't even had a chance to put together a Shadowrun: Anarchy game yet.
    How and why would this stop you? Shadowrun and Shadowrun: Anarchy are designed to scratch two very different itches. The former is a very crunchy simulationist tactical RPG. The latter is a Story First storygame. I don't see how one precludes the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenbastard View Post
    I played a lot of 1st and 2nd edition SR. Tried 5e and it was just to crunchy for me. Not sure I will buy this, but I like the idea they are simplifying it.
    I'd recommend trying 4E if you can find it free, cheap, or on sale. I can't compare it to 6E obviously because I haven't seen 6E but of the five editions of Shadowrun that ARE out on the market, I'm firmly of the opinion that 4E is the best. 4E is less crunchy and better than 5E so if you like 4E you might like 6E because it looks like it's aiming to be less crunchy and better than 5E. Typing numbers followed by the letter E is losing all meaning. I'd offer the same advice to @Saelorn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retreater View Post
    Our former Shadowrun GM was re-writing the setting for use with Genesys. I guess these are good indications a simplified system is needed.
    I don't know what Genesys is, but nonetheless ding!ding!ding! we got a winner! You're absolutely right.

    Quote Originally Posted by trancejeremy View Post
    I was a huge, huge, huge 1e to 3e fan. 4e lost me and 5e turned me off as it was a bloated 4e (so it seemed to me). While this seems like a step in the right direction, I'm not sure...
    Emphasis mine. Speaking as an author of Shadowrun Fifth Edition? 5E WAS a bloated 4E. How did 4E lose you, if you don't mind my asking? It's my favorite edition, with third being a close second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rattfraggs View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
    Ha! Fraggin' Ha! The Laughing Man strikes again?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rattfraggs View Post
    Oh man! All y'all saying that 5th was "too" crunchy?!?!?!?!?! LOLOLOLOLOL
    4th and 5th were both farther steps away from crunch and towards rules "lighter" editions... If you thought 5th was too complex then you are showing you never played 2nd.
    I played 2nd. I WROTE 5th (not all of it obviously, but I was on the design team, involved in talks about its development for MONTHS, playtested it, wrote a chapter of it, and wrote the first adventure published for it). So I think I'm pretty damn qualified when I say...

    You. Are. Dead. Wrong.

    Shadowrun 4E very likely had design goals that aimed at simplifying the rules and making the game more playable and more accessible. In any case, that is what was achieved. 4E is the best and most playable mainline edition of Shadowrun ever (I haven't read or played Anarchy nor will I be, hence 'mainline').

    Shadowrun 5E had completely incoherent and contradictory design goals seriously exacerbated by a major lack of any kind of strong top-down direction or vision. Competing bad ideas included grognards frothing at the mouth to undo virtually everything 4E had accomplished, turning commlinks back to cyberdecks, etcetera etcetera. Call that the 'I Miss The 80s' faction. And yes, nostalgia was their sole design strategy. Compounding this, there was the somewhat-more-officially-sanctioned design strategem of Aaron "Games Do Not Have To Be Fun*" Pavao whose foolproof mathematical system for creating a perfectly balanced RPG was...none of those things. Except mathematical. It WAS annoyingly mathematical. Unsurprisingly this resulted in the bloated wreck that is 5E. 5E was so bad that it actually ruined Shadowrun for me for half a decade.

    Even accounting for how counterintuitive it is trying to hit a Target Number of 11 with a pool of six-sided dice, 2nd Edition is far, far more playable than Fifth.

    * When we were arguing about who knows which of the disastrous design decisions I saw being made in SR5, Aaron browbeat me into talking to him over the phone, which I was not remotely comfortable with. Anyway, that's the most memorable quote from the conversation. He actually said that. For reals, guys. Probably the single strongest influence over the design of 5E was a man who unironically believed that it was not a priority for games to be fun.
    Last edited by ParanoydStyle; Wednesday, 1st May, 2019 at 11:00 PM.
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  2. #12
    Love the world. Can't do the system. Too crunchy, too cumbersome for my taste. If this ends up being halfway between the current edition and Anarchy, I'd be tempted to try it.
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  3. #13
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    Because it's come up a couple of times, Shadowrun Anarchy will still be supported and freelancers are still pitching new books for that line. It's not going anywhere and will stick around in parallel development as an alternative for more narrative, "rules lite"* Shadowrun.

    * I say "rules lite" but let's be honest, it's probably the crunchiest narrative RPG on the market...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoydStyle View Post
    9) "The action economy and initiative system are getting an overhaul to speed combat, reduce analysis paralysis, and to prevent faster characters from dominating every combat encounter." As written, this SOUNDS AWESOME. I just desperately hope it doesn't MEAN "we're switching over to a hard limit of one action per character per turn because that's how D&D5E does it and have you seen how much money they're making!?!?".
    I haven't seen the full system yet (I've got a review copy coming my way soon where I'll do a full breakdown), but the way it sounds is they're switching to a fixed initiative system like D&D's where you roll once at the start of combat then just go around like that. However, you will be able to move around that initiative order in various ways (spending Edge, use of gear/cyberware/spells, stuff like that). They've also streamlined actions down to two categories, Major and Minor (previously it was Complex, Simple, Free, and Movement I believe). You get one Major and two Minor actions per turn as default, movement is a Minor action (so it's no longer separate from the rest of the action economy), and the Speed Demon character builds with wired reflexes (that would normally get 2-4 turns per round) now just get more actions. Seems like a fair balance between "everyone gets to do something in combat instead of watching the Street Sam put on a gallery shooting exhibition" and "characters that invest in speed-altering effects don't feel fast".

    10) "Keeping with the "the Shadowrun world is sixty years and six months in our future" rule of thumb, the new system will be set in 2080." Good. It's a damn good rule of thumb. Every time I watch the new Ghost In The Shell hotness it's always "Newport City - 2029 AD" REGARDLESS of how close CURRENT YEAR is catching up to that date. It's like, really guys, we're gonna have prosthetic bodies and cyberbrains in the next ten years? REALLY?
    This wasn't actually intentional in the modern era best as I can tell. When FanPro did the time jump in 4e, they messed with that "60 years 6 months" formula, but then when FanPro ran into its financial troubles and schedule slips then the delay when Catalyst took over the license, it ended up catching back up to the time skip.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retreater View Post
    Also a quick turnaround with regards of announcement to product release (a month and a half).
    CGL's got nothing on Games Workshop. They announced Warhammer 40K 8th Edition on the day it was available for sale​.
    Laugh Retreater laughed with this post

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I'm used to Shadowrun's complexity and the plethora of gear, so I'm not sure how I feel about streamlining it.
    It looks like they're moving more toward tactical and narrative gameplay but not abandoning crunch entirely. The core rulebook's down to about 300 pages reportedly (which puts it more in line with 1st and 2nd ed), but the gear chapter's 50 pages so we still get to have our shopping.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoydStyle View Post
    I don't know what Genesys is, but nonetheless ding!ding!ding! we got a winner! You're absolutely right.
    Genesys is the generified (shut up spellcheck, that is a perfectly cromulent word) version of the system used in FFG's Star Wars RPGs. If Numenera was Star Wars, Genesys would be the Cypher System.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staffan View Post
    Genesys is the generified (shut up spellcheck, that is a perfectly cromulent word) version of the system used in FFG's Star Wars RPGs. If Numenera was Star Wars, Genesys would be the Cypher System.
    And Genesys Android: Shadow of the Beanstalk has the cyberpunk genre covered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imagineGod View Post
    And Genesys Android: Shadow of the Beanstalk has the cyberpunk genre covered.
    I always find it weird that people immediately think "Shadowrun" when they think cyberpunk RPG when it's always been a blend of cyberpunk and urban fantasy (even before "urban fantasy" was popular as a genre) and the vast majority of the metaplot of Shadowrun comes from the fantasy side of that coin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abstruse View Post
    I always find it weird that people immediately think "Shadowrun" when they think cyberpunk RPG when it's always been a blend of cyberpunk and urban fantasy (even before "urban fantasy" was popular as a genre) and the vast majority of the metaplot of Shadowrun comes from the fantasy side of that coin.
    Well, yeah. Cyberpunk is super depressing, and RPGs are supposed to be fun. Without orks and wizards, a cyberpunk game is too much like the real world.
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