Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

oreofox · May 8, 2019

Nightfly said:
Thanks for sharing this anecdote. It really shows why shoveling supplements out the door becomes a problem. One of the best things about 5e is that it started with just 9 basic classes, and then over the ensuing five years, it's ballooned all the way up to...uh, still just 9 classes. That's awesome. WotC keeps players happy with a few new subclasses and spells, and doesn't foist weird classes like Warden or Witch or Paladin Except Left-Handed and Lactose Intolerant on everyone. I really appreciate that.

There's more than 9 classes in 5e D&D: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard. That's 11 in the PHB, plus there's the Artificer they have been working on for the last year+. Yes, 12 is a lot less than the near 30 that Pathfinder has. Still, they have kept the number of actual classes the same in the last 5 years.

Nightfly · May 8, 2019

We're both wrong: it's actually 12. (You left out Paladin). Sorry I missed the number so badly - I shouldn't post right before I go to sleep.

zztong · May 8, 2019

S'mon said:
The line I quoted was about a "system that doesn't grow", not about "material" - which could be adventures, campaign settings and such using the system without adding any more rules. I think everyone likes to see new material in the latter sense.

Yeh, right on. A "dead" system can be convenient for a DM. You won't find players clamoring to use the "latest thing."

I would add that sometimes even a "dead" setting can be convenient too. You won't wake up to find that somebody has decided that Tieflings (Forgotten Realms) and Goblins (Golarion) are now living in your cities or that suddenly Gnomes are monsters (D&D 4e). You won't find the deities have changed or that magic went nuts and clobbered a continent or region.

The trade-off between continuity and convenience can be a tough choice.

TheSword · May 8, 2019

S'mon said:
The line I quoted was about a "system that doesn't grow", not about "material" - which could be adventures, campaign settings and such using the system without adding any more rules. I think everyone likes to see new material in the latter sense.

How do you support that supposition? D&D, Pathfinder, WFRP, Adventurers in Middle Earth (the systems I have experience with) are all releasing new rules, options and supplementary information. I suspect players of these systems probably pathfinder and 5e dnd alone represent a large proportion of players given there prominence in the industry.

Surely everybody prefers playing in a living system rather than a dead one. Incidentally I would include campaign materials and adventures as examples of a living system. You can’t separate the text and artwork of a campaign book from the rules that support that.

Rellott · May 8, 2019

Legendary Games has announced that they’ll be doing the 5e conversion of the bestiary. They’re probably best known in 5e for their forest kingdom and pirate/nautical book... both of which are riddled with pathfinder-isms and poor conversions.
I was a bit hopeful that this would open up the floodgates for PF adventures to be converted into 5e, but with that team leading the conversion, it’s not going to be worth it.

Morrus · May 8, 2019

Rellott said:
Legendary Games has announced that they’ll be doing the 5e conversion of the bestiary.

Huh! I’d have bet a lot in it being Kobold Press.

Rellott · May 8, 2019

Morrus said:
Huh! I’d have bet a lot in it being Kobold Press.

And I’d preorder it in a heartbeat if it was. I feel like KP probably has enough of their own stuff going on that they don’t really need Paizo at this point, though.

The Hierophant · May 8, 2019

Parmandur said:
My personal theory is that people didn't want to seem weird for liking stuff like Lord of the Rings or Spiderman, but now feel free to let it all hang out knowing they are not alone.

I think the Lord of the Rings (and Hobbit) films and Game of Thrones have had a far bigger impact than Critical Role or Stranger Things. They brought fantasy into the mainstream and paved the way.

We've also had a couple of generations raised on Harry Potter.

Staffan · May 8, 2019

MerricB said:
This is a key point. It's very hard to ignore the extra content when the official adventures use a LOT of it.

And using optional content is to a large degree a selling point with the APs. Back in 3.5e, adventures rarely used non-core stuff (plus setting core book stuff for adventures based in a particular setting). So you might have bought Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Dragon Magic, Magic of Incarnum, and all seven Complete books... but you won't see any of that stuff in a published adventure, so if you want those things to have a place in the world you need to make that place yourself - or if you did see a feat or something used, it would be reprinted to avoid confusion.

Pathfinder, by comparison, revels in using stuff from many different sources. For example, the Battle of Bloodmarsh Hill (Giantslayer 1) has stuff from a dozen books in addition to the core book and the Bestiary. Paizo can get away with this because all that stuff is available online, but there's still a subtle hint to the GM (or players) of "Look at this cool stuff, don't you want that?"

Staffan · May 8, 2019

The Hierophant said:
I think the Lord of the Rings (and Hobbit) films and Game of Thrones have had a far bigger impact than Critical Role or Stranger Things. They brought fantasy into the mainstream and paved the way.

We've also had a couple of generations raised on Harry Potter.

The Lord of the Rings movies are ancient by comparison. Return of the King was released in 2003, 16 years ago. Whatever effect they were going to have on D&D's popularity should have hit with 3e.