Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

LuisCarlos17f · May 7, 2019

Don't forget the non-English-speaker market of the RPGs. Lot of players are too young and they would rather to buy books in their own language.

The end of Paizo is still far. It can sell things aren't published by WotC; new classes and PCs races. And Starfinder is a franchise with a great future.

TheSword · May 7, 2019

I played Pathfinder for 10 years, but ultimately 1st edition became too bloated. The system needed a reset to make it tight again. However the old guard liked the bloat (or for them the range options it represents). If you’re a master of a system you don’t mind that the system requires mastery to play. Paizo’s release schedule was punishing. I do believe there is an issue with too much choice.

That said I don’t think Paizo’s best IP not the game system or the world of Golarion (which is pretty bland). These are really just vehicles for what they do really well : great adventures! I don’t see any reason why these couldn’t run across multiple systems and increase their reach exponentially. It worked in the days of 3e. Why not now.

Kingmaker, Skull and Shackles, Curse of the Crimson throne, Carrion Crown, Serpants skull are amazing campaigns that are truly world class. They deserve official conversion to 5e.

Morrus · May 7, 2019

TheSword said:
I played Pathfinder for 10 years, but ultimately 1st edition became too bloated.

Isn’t it exactly as bloated as the number of books you choose to buy and use?

Mistwell · May 7, 2019

Morrus said:
Isn’t it exactly as bloated as the number of books you choose to buy and use?

I've written about this concept a lot before, but the short answer is no.

The longer answer is that nobody is an island in a group game like this. Particularly if you are the DM, and you're playing with friends who buy stuff they like, it becomes increasingly difficult to say no to everything, to test everything and see how it works with everything else, to anticipate how things will be used, etc..

Bloat impacts most people, even if they don't buy the books with those books. It usually creates unpleasant peer pressure if you are not willing to look at new stuff - and if you are willing to look at new stuff, that is itself a burden on you. And then if you say no, that's an additional (often frequent) burden dealing with the friends who asked. There is also a culture surrounding a game, not the least of which is this very message board, and opting out of new stuff sometimes means opting out of that culture and conversation with your peers.

The more stuff out there for a game, the more it impacts you.

Morrus · May 7, 2019

Mistwell said:
I've written about this concept a lot before, but the short answer is no.

The longer answer is that nobody is an island in a group game like this. Particularly if you are the DM, and you're playing with friends who buy stuff they like, it becomes increasingly difficult to say no to everything, to test everything and see how it works with everything else, to anticipate how things will be used, etc..

I can’t get my friends to buy my own supplements let alone anybody else’s. Maybe I’m unusual, but this problem doesn’t exist for me — we simply use whatever books the GM (me) provides.

TheSword · May 7, 2019

Morrus said:
Isn’t it exactly as bloated as the number of books you choose to buy and use?

I think that is true to some extent. Though with all of Pathfinder content in the Pfsrd, there were about 1500 feats if memory serves about 200 subclasses, 30 classes all available at player’s fingertips. I think in the end the designers become as paralysed by this as new players and DM do. It also become almost impossible to balance power when these things can be combined in so many things ways.

I remember starting a new group I’d collected and two experienced players trying to coach three new players through character gen. It was so time consuming - even with the 50 or so feats in the core books. The whole process took the entire five hour session.

Morrus · May 7, 2019

TheSword said:
I think that is true to some extent. Though with all of Pathfinder content in the Pfsrd, there were about 1500 feats if memory serves about 200 subclasses, 30 classes all available at player’s fingertips. I think in the end the designers become as paralysed by this as new players and DM do. It also become almost impossible to balance power when these things can be combined in so many things ways.

I remember starting a new group I’d collected and two experienced players trying to coach three new players through character gen. It was so time consuming - even with the 50 or so feats in the core books. The whole process took the entire five hour session.

Just take the core rulebook along and say that’s what you’re using.

Matrix Sorcica · May 7, 2019

Morrus said:
Isn’t it exactly as bloated as the number of books you choose to buy and use?

Maybe, as long as you don't use official adventures/APs. The last many of them are bloated with monsters from late bestiaries, not to speak of the npcs who have classes, abilities and feats many people haven't even heard about. Sure, it's online for free, but a real pain to use.

TheSword · May 7, 2019

Morrus said:
Just take the core rulebook along and say that’s what you’re using.

That is an option. However as Matrix says the APs are using stuff beyond the core rulebook. Well beyond it.

It also begs the question what’s the point of playing in a system that doesn’t grow. Pathfinder grew too fast in a glut of trying to release two products a month at least.

5e grows, but at a manageable pace. With the option for conversions if you want to try things not released yet.

zztong · May 7, 2019

Mercurius said:
This is key. Americans in particular have the "king of the hill" mentality, as if the King Gorilla is the only successful gorilla. It is an incredibly myopic worldview. Not everyone has this view explicitly, but it is a subconscious influence that is particularly prevalent among Americans.

Perhaps. But I think it is more the notion that "business is war" and this is the discussion of the spectators and fans. That isn't unique to the USA. I want to say it is probably shared with parts of Asia, but that's not my field of study and I could be... well am... usually full of it.