D&D 5E Help me with good RP/Optimization balance for Half-Elf (probably)Valor Bard (archer?)

OlegRu said:

Thanks for the replies @Paul Farquhar @Zardnaar and @Ancalagon, and all due respect, but I really want to stick to playing a bard and just interested in having him be an archer so that he can deal some attack damage/and survive combat because he's further from the worst monsters. Things like Paladin, Warlock wouldn't match his backstory or the way I want to RP him.

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Oh RP is super important, if my idea didn't appeal to you, don't use it

I will note that treantmonk is correct though: in 5e, bards are full spellcasters, and your spells are the best way to battle your foes. You also can use cantrips at will, and unlike previous editions, they can pack a punch.

Ancalagon said:

Oh RP is super important, if my idea didn't appeal to you, don't use it

I will note that treantmonk is correct though: in 5e, bards are full spellcasters, and your spells are the best way to battle your foes. You also can use cantrips at will, and unlike previous editions, they can pack a punch.

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Yes, they are, but in a not so optimized group you can have fun with weapon attacks. Treantmonk has good advice, but he is viewing the game from an optimizer´s point of view, in a campaign that often allows you to play to your strength. He also does not take into account what the other character´s can do, because that is impossible. So you always need to take his advice and adapt to your own game.

If you are determined to be an archer take sharpshooter or crossbow expert and arrow storn and hex or hunters quarry at 10. If you have sharpshooter buff Dex to 20 and take spells like faerie Fire and greater invisibility.

You'll never be great at it but it's a simple build, valor bards are better melee or with rolled stats.

OlegRu said:

Hey man - thanks for the answers and your videos.

So I see you are from the "don't fight with your valor bard, cast with him" camp

Interesting how different the suggestions are that I read from different sources.

Others have recommended something like taking Sharpshooter first, then raising +2 CHA to 18(since the bard is a significant caster as you said), then raising DEX to 18, then Warcaster or Charisma to 20. Also, many recommended a 1 lvl fighter dip for the archery fighting style to offset sharpshooter's -5 attack and so on.


3. I get it about the damage, but having sword and shield equipped will really mess with my casting (need a free hand for Material component, even after warcaster helps with the Somatic) and also leaves me more open to being hit as this is melee. With a bow I can keep my distance, hide behind stuff, and let one hand go to cast whenever. Having a rapier/shield at the ready, I can sometimes take em out and do some fighting in safer battles or for flavor.

4. A few things I didn't understand that you said about skills - why all the tools? (I get a tool from background and 3 instruments from class, though the DM is letting me mix and match instruments and tools if I want); what initiative bonus?


I understand you are leaning toward recommending more of a spellcaster, but I wanted to ask - what would be good progression choices (Starting options, ASIs, Feats, Spells, MC dip etc.) for each of the 2 types of Valor Bard that we're discussing:

• Valor Bard Archer that leans more toward spell power
• Valor Bard Archer that want to get decent with bow+attacks

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The Jack of all trades class ability for Bards will give you 1/2 proficiency bonus to any ability check that you are not proficient in. This basically gives you a 1/2 proficiency in all skills, all tools (which are used with ability checks), and initiative (which is an ability check).

For a Valor Bard that leans more towards spell power I would be inclined to go with Warcaster at level 4, then Cha at 8 and 12.

For a "Valor Bard" that wants to get good with Bow attacks and have spellcasting as a more minor ability, I recommend Fighter 20 (eldritch knight) with the Entertainer background. Call him a bard. A very effective build that would have the "feel" of a bard who is more specialized in martial ability than spellcasting.

A fighter dip would certainly help if you are committed to a Valor Bard that focuses on weapons. Sharpshooter should be your first choice, then I would get Dex to 20. Focus on spells that don't rely on Cha - Improved Invisibility and Animate Objects both come to mind immediately.

OlegRu said:

Thanks for the replies @Paul Farquhar @Zardnaar and @Ancalagon, and all due respect, but I really want to stick to playing a bard and just interested in having him be an archer so that he can deal some attack damage/and survive combat because he's further from the worst monsters. Things like Paladin, Warlock wouldn't match his backstory or the way I want to RP him.

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Btw, if you got anything from my answer, I hope it was to look at the backgrounds section. It is very important, easy to overlook, and may be one of the best features of 5e.

Treantmonklvl20 said:

For a "Valor Bard" that wants to get good with Bow attacks and have spellcasting as a more minor ability, I recommend Fighter 20 (eldritch knight) with the Entertainer background. Call him a bard. A very effective build that would have the "feel" of a bard who is more specialized in martial ability than spellcasting.

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I'd double down on that and take inspiring leader as an early feat.

I don't really think that character fits wellto the description of casting buff and combat spells.

I think your multiclass Idea seems like the way to go. At that point I might reverse the order though.

Start with a level of fighter. Switch to level 1 bard. Then go all fighter battle master to level 5. Now the trick is going lore bard to 6.
That way you have nice buff spells and good attacks. You are only one level behind with your 4 attacks because you get extra magical secrets from lore bard. Your level 3 abilities are all better than valor bards.
As a battlemaster you can add extra damage and with good charisma you can rally your teammates to give extra thp.
You don't need inapiring leader then.

Your stats can be:
10 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 16 Cha.

Compared to a valor bard you are behind in spellcasting but your extra attack comes at the same time. You will have plenty of battle master dice and bardic inspiration to buff your allies. You can debuff your enemies with fairy dire at level 2. Since you started fighter you have a good concentration save too. You could be eldritch knight if you really want shield and some more spells per day but I would not recommend it since it will soon become meaningless. After level 5 it all gets better. You will get more and more spells. More and more skills. You get bardic inspiration on short rests. You can debuff enemies with them. And as already mentioned you have 4 attacks at level 11 and you can use your reaction to hinder enemies. You are also as good as a paladin or ranger regarding your spell power. I'd play that character.

Edit: sorry. Seems I was a bit sleepy. You can't get the swift quiver on level 6 because it is a level 5 spell. So you need to take haste.

So probably fighter 1, valor bard 11 seems the way to go. Starting fighter for con proficiency and archery fighting style should be preferable to straight bard. It also gives you access to medium armor and longbow right away.

I agree that battlemaster 5/lore bard X, Fighter 1/Valor bard X are both better options than single class. I would also consider Ranger(Hunter) 2/3/5/6 options, choosing ranger spells that don't require wisdom.

Concerning Collage of Blades: their ability does not specify that the attack must be a melee attack, but the way that they are worded suggests that the intent was that they be used with melee attacks, so better check with your DM if you intended to build a blade archer.

Ancalagon said:

Btw, if you got anything from my answer, I hope it was to look at the backgrounds section. It is very important, easy to overlook, and may be one of the best features of 5e.

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Yes - I wrote my own custom background

Background: Assimilated Outlander
You spent an early part of your life growing up in a rugged land, with wilderness all around, where survival depends on a balance of courage, being able to rely on your fellow man/tribe, and familiarity with the ways of the wild. However, you later migrated to a safer, more stable region, where you assimilated to civilization and an easier life, causing you to become somewhat complacent and stuck in a comfort zone.
Your past and present life cause contradicting instincts in you: the first makes you thirst for adventure and to develop yourself, while the second makes you gravitate to safer, more comfortable conditions and be wary of the unknown. The outlander in you pushes you to act naturally and put importance in ties with close people and the natural world, while the assimilated part helps you be well-mannered, blend in in civilization, and be more careful.

Skill Proficiencies: Survival, Perception
Tool Proficiencies: Choose one - Disguise Kit, Cartographer’s Tools, Land Vehicles, Woodcarver’s Tools
Languages: Giant or another common monster
Equipment: Traveler's clothes, Hunting trap, Fishing tackle, Bedroll, Tent, Belt pouch, Paper, Ink, Waterskin, Signal whistle, Rope, Tinderbox.

Feature: Guide – You have travelled and led others through a variety of routes many times, giving you an excellent memory for maps and geography, allowing you to recall the general layout of terrain, settlements, and other features around you. In addition, a safe journey is important in your profession – you remain cautious even when travelling quickly, being keenly perceptive to potential dangers on your way.