D&D 5E How do you handle the "economy killing spells" in your game?

Maxperson said:

I think this is really a mountain(20th level) out of a molehill(goblin). This is a rulings over rules game and if someone is importing a single goblin every day for his morning goblin murder, and it's not even remotely close to rising to the level of an easy challenge, I'm not giving experience for it.

If this person is going out seeking goblins to kill, then he's engaging in dangerous behavior, because instead of 1, it might be 100 today. And that's if he can even find one that day. The whole scenario seems silly to me.

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I agree it is very silly, but the point is it is possible and at some tables (not ours) you have a 9th-level cleric in every town to raise a fallen friend, and wizards to teleport a party, or whatever. Anyway, it is why our DM often narrates encounter that are very easy and doesn't award XP for them since there really was no threat to the PCs.

First, I assume that spellcasters of up to about 5th level aren't very rare. The typical priest running a church is a 5th level cleric (or equivalent), and there are multiple lower-level acolytes and junior priests for each 5th level and above cleric. Wizards and druids tend to be rarer (you won't have one in every village), but have a higher average level, since they don't have as many low-level wizards per higher level wizard as is true of clerics. Spellcasters with access to 4th level spells and higher are rarer.

I would explain plant growth by saying that villages that have good relationships with a druid do get their crops blessed and have productive yields. I don't recall ever having read an adventure where a village with a friendly druid had a famine going on (unless it was supernatural in nature). For that matter, shortage of food is rarely an issue in D&D in general. That's probably because of all of those plant growth spells being routinely cast.

When it comes to industry, like with the fabricate spell, you get into the power level where casters are rarer. Wizards generally aren't known for being the most humble and pliable of people. Or for being interested in boring mundane chores. They study magic! I could see exactly what you described happening under the right conditions. If a wizard wanted to equip his own private army, for instance. But he'd have to be really committed to that goal, and he's sacrificing that time he could be doing wizardly things. Rulers know better than to ask their court wizard or whoever to do that sort of thing. Well, they know better than to ask them more than once.

In general, the major disincentive to turning yourself into a magical industrial machine is the opportunity cost. While you are doing that, you are not doing other things you want to. And those other things are almost always more interesting to you. In fact, you could even make adventures out of the exceptions and use that to bring up the reasons for why most casters don't do that sort of thing.

dnd4vr said:

I agree it is very silly, but the point is it is possible and at some tables (not ours) you have a 9th-level cleric in every town to raise a fallen friend, and wizards to teleport a party, or whatever.

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Sure. Many tables create their own issues, and for many other tables those aren't issues at all.

Sword of Spirit said:

In general, the major disincentive to turning yourself into a magical industrial machine is the opportunity cost. While you are doing that, you are not doing other things you want to.

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This is an argument I have heard many times, but I still don't agree with.

Its 10 minutes a day...that's it. A wizard can pay someone to do the selling and fetching and all of that. It cuts into the profits, but he still makes a killing...for 10 minutes a day. He comes in, casts the spell, and leaves.

For 10 minutes a day, a wizard can have as many spells in his spellbook as he can find.

For 10 minutes a day, a wizard can have access to any magic component money can buy.


And then for the entire rest of the day, can go about regular wizarding.


We are playing a game where adventurers are literally willing to throw themselves head first into danger to strike it rich. But the wizard can make that much (maybe even more), sitting in a lounge chair. And then after his little "break" he can go about his normal spell research and the like. I feel that people are seriously underestimating how quick and easy fabricate is.

Sounds like a MLM pitch. ;-) The same truth applies—it doesn’t (and can’t) work for everyone.

Stalker0 said:

1) Plant Growth: If one 5th druid decided to "help the farmers", and enrichs a different area everyday, they could effectively add over 150,000 acres of farmland to a kingdom (the true answer is 183, 468...but inevitably travel time, vacations, etc play in).

2) Fabricate: No craftsman in the world can compete with a 7th level wizard....in fact, its easy to ask "why would there even be regular craftsman in such a world?". In 1 day, a 7th level wizard with proficiency can craft two full items in an hour and 20 minutes (needs a short rest for arcane recovery for that second spell). Or if hes feeling lazy, 1 item a day for 10 minutes.

...

So those are just a few wild thoughts. What do you do in your campaings...do you restrict these spells somehow, incorporate them into your economies, just pretend they aren't a thing...etc.

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I do nothing, because I do not play an economy simulation game, I play a game of adventures.

A PC doesn't become a Druid so that she can work as a farmer, or a Wizard so that she can work as a carpenter...

Li Shenron said:

I do nothing, because I do not play an economy simulation game, I play a game of adventures.

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This.

If I was running Mystara in 5e I'd definitely have Alphatian mage-smiths Fabricating away happily. The Alphatian economy is based off magic.

In most settings, possibly not a single Wizard knows the spell Fabricate. It's not something I've ever seen a PC Wizard research.

I definitely find that it is Cleric spells that are the issue. Most settings have Priests like the MM level 5 caster be pretty common. If they are like PCs they have access to the full Cleric spell list and can swap out every time they finish a long rest. Major temples may have *lots* of Priests and even a level 9+ high priest. This is where the GM really needs to be careful when it comes to world building, and think about how much magic he wants in his campaign world.

Stalker0 said:

This is an argument I have heard many times, but I still don't agree with.

Its 10 minutes a day...that's it. A wizard can pay someone to do the selling and fetching and all of that. It cuts into the profits, but he still makes a killing...for 10 minutes a day. He comes in, casts the spell, and leaves.

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Makes a killing or gets killed anyway. PC actions don't generally happen in a vacuum. What the wizard is doing will be negatively impacting many craftsmen and their families, which means revenge from some of them.

For 10 minutes a day, a wizard can have as many spells in his spellbook as he can find.

For 10 minutes a day, a wizard can have access to any magic component money can buy.


And then for the entire rest of the day, can go about regular wizarding.

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And hopefully he has spells left to fight the assassins with.

We are playing a game where adventurers are literally willing to throw themselves head first into danger to strike it rich. But the wizard can make that much (maybe even more), sitting in a lounge chair. And then after his little "break" he can go about his normal spell research and the like. I feel that people are seriously underestimating how quick and easy fabricate is.

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He'd best be checking that chair for traps. I think people are seriously underestimating how dangerous it is to screw with the livelihoods of hundreds of people.

Stalker0 said:

e are playing a game where adventurers are literally willing to throw themselves head first into danger to strike it rich. But the wizard can make that much (maybe even more), sitting in a lounge chair. And then after his little "break" he can go about his normal spell research and the like. I feel that people are seriously underestimating how quick and easy fabricate is.

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He also has to learn blacksmithing and how to make plate armor, which is not easy and does not take 10 minutes. Granted, it's a one-time investment, but it's not quite as trivial as you make it sound. Furthermore, his income is limited by his customer base. Materials costs set a floor of 750 gp on the price of plate; the wizard can only sell as much armor as there are people willing to shell out that kind of cash. If he wants the full 1500 gp, that's even more limiting.

But never mind all that. The question is, even assuming the wizard makes the investment and finds the customers, how is this "economy-killing?" The wizard might kill the careers of some elite armorers, but the business model doesn't scale. It's the fat profits from making top-end goods that justify the whole scheme; you don't clear 750 gp a pop making farm tools for peasants, or furniture for minor merchants, or chain shirts for random guards. The folks making those things - who constitute the overwhelming majority of craftspeople - have nothing to fear from magical automation.