Thinking about an advancement system
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    Thinking about an advancement system

    Inspired by CoC and similar systems. I havent thought it all the way through yet. Its very similar to the way CoC does it.

    Percentile system. Everything is a skill. You improve with failure.

    Every time you fail a skill check, the skill improves by 1%. Technically they can go over 100% (modifiers might bring it down).

    Hmmm. Definitely easy to abuse though. Find lots of easy tasks and repeat. Though I guess youd stop failing them, so your score would remain static.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    Inspired by CoC and similar systems. I havent thought it all the way through yet. Its very similar to the way CoC does it.

    Percentile system. Everything is a skill. You improve with failure.

    Every time you fail a skill check, the skill improves by 1%. Technically they can go over 100% (modifiers might bring it down).

    Hmmm. Definitely easy to abuse though. Find lots of easy tasks and repeat. Though I guess youd stop failing them, so your score would remain static.
    So you'd find lots of hard tasks, instead. (And that's what they'd have been doing from the start, since they were trying to fail). But then, this creates a story where the character is constantly trying to test his limit, which could work out well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyrn View Post
    So you'd find lots of hard tasks, instead. (And that's what they'd have been doing from the start, since they were trying to fail).
    Thats what I meant to say.
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    Right.

    So, if you amended the idea so that the skill improves 1% every time the character fails at a task he could have succeed at if he rolled 100 (or should that be a 1?), the character wouldn't be able to game the system by seeking out actually impossible tasks.

    And perhaps if the system is prone to getting gamed, you could lower that threshold. So maybe the character didn't gain that 1% if he would have succeed with a 80+ (or <20, my mind is blanking on which threshold would be used).

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    What about making it narrative? Any time the character succeeds at a meaningful and important* task they may instead fail and improve the skill.

    * Defining & measuring "meaningful" and "important" are left as an exercise for someone smarter than I.
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    I'm not a fan of any system where the optimal path of advancement involves sitting around and practicing your skills instead of having adventures. If the world really worked this way, then anyone would start their heroic career by grinding in their basement for a month until they could no longer fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saelorn View Post
    I'm not a fan of any system where the optimal path of advancement involves sitting around and practicing your skills instead of having adventures. If the world really worked this way, then anyone would start their heroic career by grinding in their basement for a month until they could no longer fail.
    One can reasonably assume that XP is only gained during the course of an adventure. Otherwise its not really a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    One can reasonably assume that XP is only gained during the course of an adventure. Otherwise its not really a game.
    So the adventure "starts", and then everyone spends a month in their basement to max out all of their skills.

    This sort of system has been done many times in the past, and this is always a sticking point. The optimal path of advancement is to avoid adventure as much as possible. You would need some sort of caveat in order to keep everyone moving forward, instead of just grinding, and that's not an easy passage to phrase. If the rules are clear and precise, then they can be gamed. If the rules are too vague, then they can be misinterpreted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saelorn View Post
    So the adventure "starts", and then everyone spends a month in their basement to max out all of their skills.
    That image is based on flawed (or mis-represented) versions of the concept.

    Specifically - in such a scenario, the player does not get to claim they may make die rolls sequestered in a basement. The GM says when a skill check is called for, and should only call for a skill check when failure would have a narrative consequence in the scenario. Sitting in your safe, isolated basement far from anything like meaningful action does not put you in a situation where failure will change the narrative, so you can't earn experience that way.



    On the general method:

    I, personally, prefer to not have to consider my character advancement during the action of play. I find it either distracts from the action, or gets forgotten in the midst of the action. A variant that allows me to deal with the advancement *after* the action scenes would be preferable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    That image is based on flawed (or mis-represented) versions of the concept.

    Specifically - in such a scenario, the player does not get to claim they may make die rolls sequestered in a basement. The GM says when a skill check is called for, and should only call for a skill check when failure would have a narrative consequence in the scenario. Sitting in your safe, isolated basement far from anything like meaningful action does not put you in a situation where failure will change the narrative, so you can't earn experience that way.
    That wasn't how the rule was presented, in the opening post. There was no caveat about "only the GM decides when you roll" or "only when failure would have a consequence". While adding such caveats can address the issue, I've found that it turns the game into one of manipulating the GM rather than manipulating the rules, which is not a good thing.

    If you can only roll when the GM tells you to, then the method of play becomes convincing the GM that you should be allowed to roll. If you can only advance when there would be a consequence for failure, then your job is to convince the GM that the consequences would be meaningful. The rules put the GM in the position of playing the bad guy, who resists your attempts at having fun.

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