Resisting boredom, int or wis save? - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacktheRabbit View Post
    Related question.

    Player creates a really low wisdom character who generally only thinks for himself, drinks too much, etc etc.

    Would you consider the occasional wisdom save for said character to avoid getting drunk during his turn on watch? Or something else equally stupid like falling asleep or wandering out of camp when he hears a strange but harmless sounding noise.
    No, having low wisdom means you have low perception which already covers your inability to concentrate when on the watch. However, once you've established that the perception check is failed, you or the player may be free to color the failure as being explained by the players poor habits. Personally, I'd leave that job to the player, though some groups allow the GM's to narrate failures.

    Addiction and other things like that should be treated as color unless they are established mechanically by some process of play. For example in some games you might be able to take 'addiction (alcohol)' as a flaw, but generally if you do so, you are allowed to receive a corresponding advantage in fair exchange. If 'addiction (alcohol)' is a well defined status in your game, then perhaps some process of play might inflict addictions on players, just as others might inflict curses or handicaps. However, if you are asking questions like this, chances are you don't have mechanical support for ideas like that, so my advice is to keep them at the level of quirks and use them to color the RP only, and not influence success or failure beyond what is already established by having a low Wisdom.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacktheRabbit View Post
    Player creates a really low wisdom character who generally only thinks for himself, drinks too much, etc etc.

    Would you consider the occasional wisdom save for said character to avoid getting drunk during his turn on watch? Or something else equally stupid like falling asleep or wandering out of camp when he hears a strange but harmless sounding noise.

    Not in critical times like having just evaded the party of Gnolls, but more relaxed traveling 3 weeks towards the gnoll lair they plan on raiding.
    I'd actually go the other way around - it seems most interesting if the issue is all about escaping from the gnolls. (I'm thinking of Captain Haddock in the boat the first time he meets Tintin, in Crab with the Golden Claws.)

    If the escape is being adjudicated as some sort of skill challenge or via some comparable structured resolution system (5e has some stuff like this for the exploration phase of play), then if this character is put on the crucial watch that's time to call for that WIS check.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacktheRabbit View Post
    Would you consider the occasional wisdom save for said character to avoid getting drunk during his turn on watch? Or something else equally stupid like falling asleep or wandering out of camp when he hears a strange but harmless sounding noise.

    Not in critical times like having just evaded the party of Gnolls, but more relaxed traveling 3 weeks towards the gnoll lair they plan on raiding.
    Probably not a good idea to force save-or-stupid saves on PCs. Especially if there's nothing at stake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrim View Post
    Wisdom. Wisdom governs self-control and the ability to apply yourself to tasks.
    I was thinking that players govern self-control, not saving throws. The issue rightfully comes up with magical compulsion, i.e. resisting a siren's call. You can tell a player that his character drinks too much on a failed check, sure, but at least do it in a situation in which that might reasonably occur - like there's a persuasive Belgian monk, with a couple of extra kegs, riding along on the gnoll-visiting trek.

    Ask the player what happens first. If you strongly disagree, then ask for a roll.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMMike View Post
    I was thinking that players govern self-control, not saving throws.
    As far as I can tell, you aren't actually disagreeing with me.

    For example, I said: "Addiction and other things like that should be treated as color unless they are established mechanically by some process of play."

    For example, if the player in a hypothetical rule set had taken a defect 'Addiction (Alcohol)' on character creation in exchange for getting an extra feat (say 'Power Attack'), then presumably that feat would under certain conditions force a saving throw on the PC, which if failed would result in alcohol intoxication. But in the absence of such a thing, alcohol addiction is the explanation for the PC's low wisdom, and exists as color - no additional mechanical penalty is required unless the player chooses to have his PC drink to excess for whatever reason. Thus, even if the persuasive Belgian Monk is around with a couple of extra kegs, as I'm advising people here there is no saving throw, no additional penalty to wisdom, and no compulsion on the player to drink beyond their own choice in the matter.

    Thus, someone with low wisdom and the color of an alcohol addiction doesn't get a double penalty on his perception check to stand a watch.

    On the other hand, a player that had established as part of the color of his character that he was a hard drinker, if a spell like suggestion was used to compel the PC to drink, the player could not claim that to the PC the suggestion was unreasonable and so receive any sort of saving throw bonus. Whereas, a player who had strictly played his character as a sober ascetic could reasonably make this claim. Likewise, one could easily imagine a magic brew which if sipped resulted in some sort of charm effect which mimicked the mechanics of suggestion, and upon sipping such a brew the same logic would apply.
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