The New Dungeons & Dragons Storyline for 2019 Leaked Ahead of Live Stream - Page 28
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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abstruse View Post
    Not even getting into the grammatical and typographical errors of someone starting off with "reading comprehension 0%", but let's back up a bit and say this:

    Mike Mearls, on behalf of Wizards of the Coast, said the PDF would be updated with new material.
    And he also said that if it proved popular a hardback Eberron book would be released.

    People paid $20 for the PDF based off that.
    Yes they did. If they hadn't no further Eberron publication would have been released.

    Wizards of the Coast then releases a $50-60 hardcover on the same material.
    It's only "The same material" if you consider "Waterdeep: Dragonheist" and "The Sword Coast Adventurers Guide" as "The Same Material".

    So either the people who paid $20 for the PDF are not getting this updated material,
    Yes, they are. The new Eberron book has no effect on updates to the existing Eberron book.

    No matter what happens here
    People are going to complain about it because they are entitled jerks who aren't happy unless they are slagging someone off.
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  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyrn View Post
    Wait. You own both? Where'd you get a copy of the hardcover? By which I mean, how do I get a copy?
    ha... ha...

    If I get a hardcopy of the physical book, I won't be happy. As half of that book will be reprinting something else. I'll have paid $80 for the book. Even if I get it at Amazon on a sale, I'll have paid more for that book that if I bought it at my FLGS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enevhar Aldarion View Post
    Not really, as there was a qualifier in there somewhere, that I am not searching for right now, along the lines of if the PDF is popular enough, then a hardcover could be made to go with it. If no one, or few enough people, had bought the PDF, then there would have never been a hardcover at all.
    Here's the thing... they plan their books 18 months ahead. They already knew that they'd be doing the Eberron book. Okay, they might have had time to make last minute changes, but they probably already had it on the schedule when they released the Wayfinder's Guide, guessing what the response would be.

    So it wasn't a "theoretical" book. I was a book already scheduled and planned. Hence why I feel lied to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enevhar Aldarion View Post
    Don't forget that the current page count for the PDF does not even include the pages for the Artificer yet, so that number will grow once everything is finalized
    IF they decide to still add the artificer. They may not, saving that for the hardcover,

    Even if they do that's not really helpful. As every page added to the PDF would also be added to the hardcover. And doing the math, if they add those pages to both the PDF and the hardcover, it increases the total percentage of the book that would likely be reprinted. Right now it's around 70.5% if they copy 120-pages of the 170-page book (i.e. intro to the nations, the races, dragonmarks). If the artificer brings in 20 pages that goes up to 73%...

    Quote Originally Posted by Enevhar Aldarion View Post
    People around here, and in WotC's polls, seem to think that Eberron is more popular than any of those, so not surprised it is first.
    You'd be wrong there: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/july-survey

    Eberron TIED with Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, and the Forgotten Realms. And we haven't really seen a hardcover setting book for any of those, apart from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, which covered maybe a third of the Realms.
    (And before you say it, no Curse of Strahd doesn't count. That was an update of an adventure not the setting: it included and updated none of the trappings of the setting.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Enevhar Aldarion View Post
    And some of those other settings will likely follow the same format and the the PDF playtest treatment first and a hardcover added later. Eberron proved this format works, so they will use it again. And they will likely do them in order of profitability, so some old settings will never see the light of day and maybe never be opened on DMs Guild either.
    First, I doubt anyone is going to buy the PDF playtest document next time. They'll look at the UAs and give their feedback, but they're not going to play to test.

    The big "catch" is they don't need to do a annual setting books. Settings have hard diminishing returns as you only need one at a time, and a single setting can accommodate multiple campaigns and years of play. Eberron is their second setting in as many years. There's maybe an audience for one more setting before sales for those books start dropping. Two at most. So we get a Dark Sun and Planescape book but never get a Forgotten Realms hardback for 5e. No Dragonlance or Greyhawk or Ravenloft. And probably not Spelljammer.
    That's mostly why I'm irked.
    This is very literally coming at the expense of another setting. That's a setting that won't receive a setting book for 5e. Likely a setting that wasn't officially update for 4e either (and maybe not 3e). The longer the setting goes without support, the fewer and fewer fans the setting will have. Dragonlance used to be the most popular setting. But without the ability to make new fans in 4e, it fell to the second tier. By the time they do a 6e survey, it might be in the third tier, alongside Spelljammer, Mystara, and Birthright.
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  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    Got it.
    Mearls lied to us when he said it was "theoretical".
    Lied. To. Our. Faces.


    Also, the "Some things, like the artificer, races, and basic world info" covers the first 120-pages of Wayfarer's Guide. It's 70% of the book. So Wayfarer's Guide is really only useful if you're playing in Sharn for those 40-pages. So, that's like fifty cents a page for that content.
    Yeah... totally happy owning both. Don't feel ripped off and taken advantage of at all.


    Meanwhile, the Eberron fans get TWO books while the fans of Dragonlance, Planescape, Spelljammer, Birthright, Dark Sun, and Greyhawk get how many books?
    I fail to see how "laying out conditional plans in detail" can be considered a lie of the conditions are met and the plans are carried out. That seems to be the opposite of a lie. It certainly wasn't a promise, as they had room to change their mind. But apparently the experiment was a success, so they followed through. When one says "I may do X if Y" and then does X, this is hardly dishonest.

    The WGtE is a 175 page book. The non-Artificer UA material comes to 22 pages. This leaves over 150 pages of material that isn't set to be repeated, that is not available for free. Your mileage may vary, but that is not nothing.
    Last edited by Parmandur; Monday, 20th May, 2019 at 05:28 PM.
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  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abstruse View Post
    Not even getting into the grammatical and typographical errors of someone starting off with "reading comprehension 0%", but let's back up a bit and say this:

    Mike Mearls, on behalf of Wizards of the Coast, said the PDF would be updated with new material.

    People paid $20 for the PDF based off that.

    Wizards of the Coast then releases a $50-60 hardcover on the same material.

    So either the people who paid $20 for the PDF are not getting this updated material, meaning they were deceived...or they are getting this updated material, which devalues the still-as-yet unreleased book.

    No matter what happens here, unless Wizards of the Coast comes up with some details as to what is and is not included in the Eberron book and what recompense (if any) they're giving to people who bought the Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron, people are going to speculate. And that speculation is not going to be on Wizards of the Coast's side considering the preponderance of the evidence.
    The PDF has been updated over the course of the playtest, progressively. They haven't added the Artificer, but they did not make changes to the crunch parts over the Unearthed Arcana tests.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyzhran2357 View Post
    Reading comprehension 0%, final course grade F, pleaew withdraw from this program, pleaseleave this institution and never come back.
    I don't deserve this.
    ENWorld has just become a site I visit to argue and become frustrated. And I think this is the straw.
    So yes, I think I will.
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  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    If I get a hardcopy of the physical book, I won't be happy. As half of that book will be reprinting something else. I'll have paid $80 for the book. Even if I get it at Amazon on a sale, I'll have paid more for that book that if I bought it at my FLGS.
    So, there are about 22 pages that look set to be reprinted, that are already available for free: hardly half of either book. The Wayfarer's Guide had a percentage that included the playtest material, but there is more to it than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    Here's the thing... they plan their books 18 months ahead. They already knew that they'd be doing the Eberron book. Okay, they might have had time to make last minute changes, but they probably already had it on the schedule when they released the Wayfinder's Guide, guessing what the response would be.

    So it wasn't a "theoretical" book. I was a book already scheduled and planned. Hence why I feel lied to.
    It was pretty obviously their plan and intention at the time. The theoretical fig leaf gave then room for the conditions not being met, and they could have cancelled it: they've done it before.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    Got it.
    Mearls lied to us when he said it was "theoretical".
    Lied. To. Our. Faces.
    That tweet is 10 months old. You don't think the hardcover might have gone from "theoretical" to "actual" within an almost year long period?

    You're usually a pretty good poster, but this is a massively bad post.
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  8. #278
    I mean, it's not like Dragonlance, Spelljammer, et al. are actually good.

    Eberron, Dark Sun and Raveloft are really the only good ones.

    (I'm only half-kidding)
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  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    TheWayfarer's Guide is 170 pages. It's BIG. Far from a quick intro. If you handed that to your players and told them to read it, their response would be "WTF, dude?!?"
    Lol, nobody is going to tell them to read the entire thing. Because they don't need to read the entire thing to participate in an Eberron campaign. Bad argument.

  10. #280
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    Agreed, Jester is usually a great poster but this Eberron book seem to have rubbed him the wrong way and Im firmly in the camp of not buying it anyway and I dont feel the need to post back and forths with others. Take a couple days off Jester, from the topic of Eberron and come back
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