D&D 5E How many classes in multiclass is to much?

delph · May 18, 2019

Hello, I'm playing for almost 3 years, but from time to time. Two campaigns with:
Halfling Wizard (finished in 11th lvl)
Dwarf Druid (almost done, now 9 lvl and max will be 10)

And now I'm on start a new campaign with Halfling Warrior/Rogue (1+1 lvl). And I'm now in whole new word with multiclassing. I'm thinking about Warrior (5)/Rogue (12) /Ranger (3)

But sometimes I found something interesting in other classes and my brain starts mix "what if..."

So I'll welcome some constructive posts for my build and any discussion how many class did you have in multiclass and why and how it works.

Blue · May 18, 2019

delph said:
[FONT="]Hello, I'm playing for almost 3 years, but from time to time. Two campaigns with: [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#1C1E29][FONT="]Halfling Wizard (finished in 11th lvl)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Dwarf Druid (almost done, now 9 lvl and max will be 10)[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#1C1E29][FONT="]And now I'm on start a new campaign with Halfling Warrior/Rogue (1+1 lvl). And I'm now in whole new word with multiclassing. I'm thinking about Warrior (5)/Rogue (12) /Ranger (3)[/FONT]

[FONT="]But sometimes I found something interesting in other classes and my brain starts mix "what if..." [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#1C1E29][FONT="]So I'll welcome some constructive posts for my build and any discussion how many class did you have in multiclass and why and how it works.[/FONT]

For me, multiclassing is a great tool for building a concept that falls between some classes. I've seen multiclassing to two and even three done quite well.

On the other hand, I've seen multiclassing being used to cherry pick advantages from various classes - those can fall flat with even just 2 if you're doing it for mechanics instead of for a concept. "My paladin is going to take a level of warlock (hexblade) so I can use CHR to attack." (Mind you, I could see a hexblade/paladin with great concept - that's not saying you can't be effective AND have a strong concept.

I played with a player who was 7th level and had 4 classes. That ... well, that was likely too much. He was so spread that he wasn't getting any advanced features, no ASIs, and all in all the rest of us were heroes and he fulfilled his concept but was just far behind in helping to support the rest of the party even with a bunch of good abilities.

As a side note, I worry a bit when I see 20th level builds like Fighter 5/Rogue 12/Ranger 3 - if you are playing up the levels it's very easy to shoot yourself in the foot with multiclassing. If you have a character that doesn't come together mechancially until the campaign is nearly over (and most campaigns don't get up to 20) then you'll be feeling sad that you ever multiclassed. I'd suggest keeping number proportional to your character level, potentially not even grabbing a second calss (or just 1 level) until after the power bump at level 5. And don't forget to get your ASI (unless you are rolling and rolled like a god).

Esker · May 18, 2019

What concept are you going for? What subclasses do you have your eye on? What fighting style? And lastly, what are the key features you're after by multiclassing?

As a general matter, I disagree somewhat with Blue about multiclassing for mechanical benefit. I think 5e does a good job of not baking in too much RP concept into its classes, and makes the tradeoffs involved in multiclassing for the most part well balanced enough, that I don't see any problem with multiclassing purely for mechanical reasons, and simply imposing your own flavor on the mechanics as befits your concept. As long as you understand what you're delaying or giving up by multiclassing, go for the mechanics you want (even if that's the old Hexblade dip).

That said, I absolutely agree with Blue that you need to build to have fun and be effective at every level, not just at the theoretical endpoint of your build. Among other things that means keeping an eye on your ASIs, and keeping your eye on a reasonably focused niche.

Dannyalcatraz · May 18, 2019

[MENTION=6996123]delph[/MENTION]

Your initial post is hard to see for some. Here’s why, and how to fix it.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?348563-Dark-Text-on-a-Dark-Background-Tutorial

MNblockhead · May 18, 2019

Most campaigns never get anywhere near 20. If you are not expecting to play to high levels, you are not likely to shoot yourself in the foot.

Multiclass as much as it takes to build the character concept that you are going for, whether that is for story, for power gaming, or both.

One thing I am thinking about is doing one shots or mini campaigns at Tier 2 or Tier 3 levels. I would tell the players some basic info about the adventure and that it will be trend towards challenging/deadly. They can build up whatever character they would like and would think is fun for that adventure.

Don't get me wrong, I love to play a character over a long period and develop a long story arc. In those cases I usually do not multiclass or MAYBE take two classes.

But I don't get to play enough to play as many character types as I want. I'm afraid to go gonzo with a character in a main campaign, so a one-shot or mini campaign would be a fun way to try some crazy combos.

Blue · May 19, 2019

Esker said:
As a general matter, I disagree somewhat with Blue about multiclassing for mechanical benefit. I think 5e does a good job of not baking in too much RP concept into its classes, and makes the tradeoffs involved in multiclassing for the most part well balanced enough, that I don't see any problem with multiclassing purely for mechanical reasons, and simply imposing your own flavor on the mechanics as befits your concept.

I don't know that we're too far apart. I'm fine with multiclassing to get a mechanical benefit because it fits your vision of the character. It's the difference between playing a holy knight of the god of magic that you realize as a paladin/sorcerer vs. playing a grim vengance-knight where you take levels of sorcerer just to fuel your Divine Smite slots and for the CON save. I'm also big on reskinning.

Let me give a real example from a game I was in. One character had a Fighter 3 / Cleric (Forge) 1 / Rogue 1 / Bard 2. Rogue and Bard were just there for expertise (and also bardic inspiration, which was never given an in-game narrative at all, just a floating bonus he gave you). He was just cherry-picking mechanics all around without trying to tie anything into a concept outside "merchant". There was no reskinning, no cohesive idea. And because of that it made a very forgettable character.

Could you have brought all of those together? Sure. Esepcially with reskinning in order to marry a mechanic with what you are trying to project in the world.

ccs · May 19, 2019

For me, the point where MC becomes "too much" is when it would distort the concept of the character because out-of-character it's only being chosen for the mechanical advantages.
A great example would be all those paladins who MC into warlock for the spell slot trick.

I almost never MC my own characters based on the rules. When I have it's been because:
1) In AD&D non-human characters could have multiple classes. But these had to be chosen at 1st lv & were essentially locked in from then onwards (with xp being evenly split between them). So if I wanted an Elf Fighter/wizard, etc....
2) In AD&D humans could permanently stop progressing in one class & start over in another one. The only reason I ever did this was when my character lost the ability to be the original class. For example; Paladins falling from grace. If you couldn't/wouldn't atone....
3) In 3x/PF there's plenty of Prestige Classes that all but require you to MC a few lvs of x/y/z. So mechanically you have to plan this out outside actual play.

Other than that? When I MC its because that's how the story is progressing. My last MC character was in Pathfinder, a Wizard (divination)/Paladin. My div wizard made it to lv.17 - and then MC into Paladin 1.

Here in 5e? I've considered MC twice.
* The 1st instance was with my warlock. I found a magic item that was infused with part an evil wizards spirit that would possess anyone picking it up/using it. It wouldn't affect your class mechanics, but it'd alter you personality/motivations. Those motivations/attitudes were NOT compatible with my characters patron.
The patron would not continue to teach my character magic, supply a familiar, etc.
So I was pondering what would fit going forward.
Fortunately the DM also realized that this change would not be fun for the game, would practically ruin a great character, and provided a way to reverse the corruption before I had to make any lasting mechanical change.
* The 2nd time was with a Barbarian.
The character is a barbarian because they are essentially untrained. Yes, they are tough & dangerous in combat. Yes, they rage. But that rage with its advantage to be hit & exhaustion is because of a lack of proper training. At around 6th/7th lv one of the players introduced a fighter. And through play began properly training the 1/2ling barbarian. Unfortunately the fighter was killed before managing to teach enough for me to MC into fighter (we rolled an Int save when I next lv up at 8th. I rolled poorly).

delph · May 20, 2019

Hi everyone,

At the start answer I have to say: I've got a promise, that it will be 20 lvl campaign. So I've started thinking about it.

Now I change little settings. Fighters and Rangers 4th and 5th levels are same - ASI + Extra Attac. But Ranger gets more and higher slots for casting (and some heals will be necessary. We are "Fighter", Warlock and Sorcerer )

And why like this?:
Fighter Battlemaster give me maneuvers (and riposte), second wind and action surge and dueling +2 dmg
Ranger Hunter give me spells (heal and Zephyr strike), defensive +1 AC, Colossus slayer or Horde breaker
Rogue Hexblade give me sneak attack, evasion

Esker · May 20, 2019

Agreed that you get more from Ranger 4 and 5 than fighter 4 and 5.

Hexblade is a warlock subclass, not rogue. Do you know what rogue archetype you want? I'm guessing given your mention of dueling style that you want to go rapier and shield, staying in light armor since you'll be maxing DEX? Arcane trickster might be a good fit, to give you a few more spells and spell slots (and a familiar, if you want one).

I encourage you to map out your progression level by level, not just the level 20 composition, and be clear with yourself about the tradeoffs involved each time you decide to level one class vs another. Even if the campaign does make it that far (which, even if everyone intends to stick it out now, is difficult to guarantee), nearly all of your play time will be at levels below 20.

I would probably start ranger and stick with it until 5, then maybe grab a fighter level now that you have two attacks to benefit from dueling style. From there you could either continue with fighter for action surge and maneuvers, or start taking some rogue levels for sneak attack damage and an ASI. If sticking with fighter it might be worth continuing to fighter 4 before switching to rogue (or take one rogue level then back to fighter 4) so you don't fall so far behind on ASIs. The end build (5/4/11) has exactly the same features as 5/3/12, except that the ASI comes earlier (I guess except that for an arcane trickster evel 12 advances your spell slots, but that seems minor compared to getting that second ASI several levels earlier).

You wind up with the normal complement of 5 ASIs in this build, which is good. You'll obviously want to use 1.5 or 2 of those for DEX bumps (depending on starting stats; if you do start with a 17 DEX, there's a case for starting with one level of fighter for CON saves, then taking Resilient (DEX) with your first ASI). You probably also want War Caster since I assume you'll have hands full, and will often be concentrating on something. Sentinel could be good, to round out the situations that prompt a reaction: Riposte if they attack you and miss, Uncanny Dodge if they attack you and hit, Sentinel if they attack someone else. Or you could take Defensive Duelist, to help you turn some would-be hits into misses. If you've got decent Wisdom, Magic Initiate (Druid) for Guidance and Faerie Fire could be nice. And there's always Lucky.

delph · May 21, 2019

Thanks Esker.

My mistake in Rogue. I was in a hurry. I't was Rogue Swashbuckler, to get sneak attack in almost every turn. But still not sure. Arcane trickster or Assasin looks fine to. And Mistermind with giving advantage to another player is good to (one player have it, and in one battle it win really hot battle)

And I've started as Fighter, then take one lvl Rogue.

And my progress is biggest problem for me now

Now I think about get fighter to 3, then start Ranger and finish with rogue...