D&D 5E State of the mystic

Giltonio_Santos · May 23, 2019

Yaarel said:
I want psionics to be normal. I dislike weird mechanics. I fear that the designers will worry about difficult-to-predict wonky mechanics and over-nerf it, thus make psionics suck. I oppositely fear that designers will fail to anticipate broken combos, thus make psionics ruin the game.

In previous editions of D&D, psionics has either sucked or been broken − because of stupid weird mechanics.

The only time psionics has ever been balanced is because it used normal mechanics. The powers were transparent with the spells that other classes used. The 3e Psion of the Expanded Psionic Handbook used a spell point system. The 4e Psion used the same at-will, per-encounter, and per-day powers that other classes used.

I want psionics that I can use as a normal part of the game.

The powers of the mind are an important theme in many fantasy settings.

I want psionics to be normal.

You already have what you want, it's called reskin. Your psion is a reskinned sorcerer and your psychic warrior is a reskinned paladin. Now, let somebody else have the toys they want to play with, that will not invalidate the things you like in any way.

Yaarel · May 23, 2019

Giltonio_Santos said:
You already have what you want, it's called reskin. Your psion is a reskinned sorcerer and your psychic warrior is a reskinned paladin. Now, let somebody else have the toys they want to play with, that will not invalidate the things you like in any way.

I want official support for normal (non-broken non-sucky) psionics.

If WotC made psionic archetypes for regular classes, that most players can use conveniently, that would probably satisfy my needs from the game.

If in addition to the normal class mechanics, WotC *also* made a special psionic class with cumbersome mechanics that few D&D players want, I could ignore that.

Giltonio_Santos · May 23, 2019

Yaarel said:
I want official support for normal (non-broken non-sucky) psionics.

Now I'm curious. If you want the psionic class to work mechanically like the other casters, what do you want to be different about it? Only the flavor?

Yaarel · May 23, 2019

Parmandur said:
The Mystic was already using the spell points system from the DMG. That's what people didn't like. And the Psion tests so far were using spell slots as power points, essentially. Because in 5E, the only difference is surface math.

Yeah, unfortunately, it is hard to like the 5e spell point system in the DMG. The 5e design made spell values wonky: 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13.

Using these values feels too convoluted.

A simpler point system would be, for a full caster. Your total spell points equal your caster level x2. The cost of each spell equals its spell level. You refresh your spell points after each long or short rest.

I suspect this is balanced enough. But it only works upto spell level 5. Spell levels 6 to 8 need to be rationed out separately. And possibly spell level 9 separately again.

Parmandur · May 23, 2019

Yaarel said:
Yeah, unfortunately, it is hard to like the 5e spell point system in the DMG. The 5e design made spell values wonky: 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13.

Using these values feels too convoluted.

A simpler point system would be, for a full caster. Your total spell points equal your caster level x2. The cost of each spell equals its spell level. You refresh your spell points after each long or short rest.

I suspect this is balanced enough. But it only works upto spell level 5. Spell levels 6 to 8 need to be rationed out separately. And possibly spell level 9 separately again.

Well, the point values are not necessarily intuitive, but they represent the math used in the game to evaluate the slots. As such, the DMG system is perfectly in balance, and can be plugged or unplugged from the game with no effect. What they found in practice with the Mystic was that people didn't want to use the variant system at all, or any variant system.

Kobold Avenger · May 23, 2019

If psionics is too different from the rest of D&D the vast majority of DMs will reject psionics from their games. That's the simplest statement for why it should be close to existing D&D mechanics.

If it's too different many DMs won't bother to learn a new system, many will just say it's overpowered without even looking at it.

Parmandur · May 23, 2019

Kobold Avenger said:
If psionics is too different from the rest of D&D the vast majority of DMs will reject psionics from their games. That's the simplest statement for why it should be close to existing D&D mechanics.

If it's too different many DMs won't bother to learn a new system, many will just say it's overpowered without even looking at it.

I think "should" is strong: but "will" is accurate, since WotC is uninterested in providing a Class that DMs will not allow.

Giltonio_Santos · May 23, 2019

Kobold Avenger said:
If psionics is too different from the rest of D&D the vast majority of DMs will reject psionics from their games. That's the simplest statement for why it should be close to existing D&D mechanics.

If it's too different many DMs won't bother to learn a new system, many will just say it's overpowered without even looking at it.

And that's how it has always been. Psionics is a DM call; bringing this kind of thing to one's game has always been a DM call. In fact, from my experience, many DMs will reject psionics even if it uses almost the same mechanic as magic, simply because they don't think it fits their vision of what a D&D game should be. That happened during the 3.X era. The same is true about artificers and warlords, and I still believe WotC should be trying to make those characters happen for the people who want them in their games.

But I get your point as well. Maybe psionics, as I'd like it to happen, will have a future in a third-party product. MCG is doing 5e stuff these days, a book on psionics written by Bruce Cordell should be a possibility, even if a remote one. I know I'd buy it and use it in place of any official stuff that presents psionic power as a different flavor for spellcasting.

Retreater · May 23, 2019

In an interesting turn of events, I'm going to be playing in a one-shot Dark Sun game. The DM is opening up the Mystic class. So this is the first time I've honestly looked at it.

Wow. Upon a first look, it's garbage. The Disciplines are very underwhelming. Psi Points should recover after a short rest like Ki points for a monk. There's a talent (which is the only at-will ability you get) that basically all Mystics get for free at 2nd level anyway. No way is this comparable to a wizard.

I would consider it only because it's thematic to Dark Sun, but even so I feel it's a punishment to have to play one.

CapnZapp · May 23, 2019

Parmandur said:
As such, the DMG system is perfectly in balance, and can be plugged or unplugged from the game with no effect.

No, that's not the case. Being allowed to use spell points means a huge increase in flexibility (for wizards, sorcerers have it built-in) and thus in power.

D&D 5E State of the mystic

Giltonio_Santos

Hero

Yaarel

He Mage

Giltonio_Santos

Hero

Yaarel

He Mage

Parmandur

Book-Friend

Kobold Avenger

Legend

Parmandur

Book-Friend

Giltonio_Santos

Hero

Retreater

Legend

CapnZapp

Legend

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