D&D 4E How To Clone 4E Using 5E Rules

Mistwell · Jun 4, 2019

I wonder. How would you clone 5e using 4e rules?

EzekielRaiden · Jun 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
I wonder. How would you clone 5e using 4e rules?

Difficult question. Part of the problem is simply that 5e just...chooses not to have formal rules/terms for things. Roles? Gone! Keywords? Gone! Positioning? Who cares! etc.

Porting in that kind of...intensely cavalier attitude into 4e would be difficult.

Mistwell · Jun 4, 2019

EzekielRaiden said:
Difficult question. Part of the problem is simply that 5e just...chooses not to have formal rules/terms for things. Roles? Gone! Keywords? Gone! Positioning? Who cares! etc.

Porting in that kind of...intensely cavalier attitude into 4e would be difficult.

Roles can be assigned to various subclasses. Keywords can be placed on all sorts of things. Positioning exists and the DMG has even more positioning rules available. I think all of it could be done.

Tony Vargas · Jun 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
I wonder. How would you clone 5e using 4e rules?

4e isn't available to clone other eds with. 1e, 3e, and 5e are.

EzekielRaiden · Jun 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
Roles can be assigned to various subclasses. Keywords can be placed on all sorts of things. Positioning exists and the DMG has even more positioning rules available. I think all of it could be done.

Er, that would be building 4e out of 5e. The original question you asked would be building 5e out of 4e. You'd have to strip out roles from (sub)classes and delete keywords from powers. That was my issue.

Zardnaar · Jun 4, 2019

I used the 4E core and combat table as my engine and switched to 5E later.

The guts of 4E can be used to clone whatever you like, the skill system is a bit wonky though (+14 or +15lvl 1).

Zardnaar · Jun 4, 2019

A rough attempt.
Role: Defender yada yada
Defences +2 fortitude
Hit Points Level 1: 2d10 (20)+ con modifier
Hit Points per level gained d10+con modifier
Surges Per day 5+ con modifier (1d10+con modifier)
Skills: As 5E PHB
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, light, and medium) and shields.
Powers same number as 4E PHB (might need to rewrite)

5E proficiency bonus is added to all saves, fort= str or con, dex= dex or int, willpower= wis or cha a'la 4E

Combat Challenge. You may mark an opponent, they get disadvantage on any attack thats not you etc etc etc. Healing surges are renamed and rather getting 25% its hit dice based. Surge dice increase by 1 whenever prof bonus increases (2d10+con mod lvl 5, 3d10+con modifer level 9). SUrges restore more HP than 4E but I cut the number, the idea is also to speed things up.

Dwarves get to surge as a bonus action, leader based healing is a bonus action and you can spend a surge.

Took the concepts form 4E and changed it slightly since you can't just copy and paste the 4E PHB.

Mistwell · Jun 4, 2019

EzekielRaiden said:
Er, that would be building 4e out of 5e. The original question you asked would be building 5e out of 4e. You'd have to strip out roles from (sub)classes and delete keywords from powers. That was my issue.

Ah right. I guess I didn't have my head wrapped around my own question.

I guess the 4e Essentials books went some of the way to this. Roles started to waiver, and classes started to dip into multiple concepts at once.

Mistwell · Jun 4, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
4e isn't available to clone other eds with. 1e, 3e, and 5e are.

Nobody would actually try it even if it were. It's a thought experiment, not a legal question.

Tony Vargas · Jun 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
It's a thought experiment

It'd look a bit like Essentials, really - heck, 5e /is/ built on a lot of d20/3e/4e mechanics, anyway, it's older-ed pedigree is mostly attitude & feel. It's a lot easier to extract balance from a system built with it from the ground up than to add it in after the fact, and, ultimately, that was the main sticking point in terms of 'feel' between 4e and other editions.

So, sure, first take dailies away from martial classes, expand the power of the Wizard, in particular, and other casters in general, like Essentials did. And just keep going from there. Take at-wills away from the martials, too. Isolate encounter powers in the Warlock, one sub-class of the fighter, and an odd feature here or there. Radically expand dailies. Start by keeping a daily use of each daily spell you ever choose, rather than training them out, expand that from up to 3 or 4 dailies, total, per day, to 3 or 4 dailies per 'spell level' and one or two for the higher levels. LFQW re-established. Well on your way.

Slicing the last 10 levels off the game and dialing 1/2 level down to +4 over 20 levels is almost cosmetic, at that point.