D&D 4E How To Clone 4E Using 5E Rules

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

hmmmmmm still wish there were ways to delete a mispost

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

EzekielRaiden said:
Keywords? Gone! .

In 4e one of the funnest Keywords both for monsters and hero powers in my opinion was Bloodied it adjusted the pacing dynamic of the play.

I wanted effects which intensified battle MORE based on it but instead 5e gave us rip.....

EzekielRaiden · Jun 5, 2019

Garthanos said:
In 4e one of the funnest Keywords both for monsters and hero powers in my opinion was Bloodied it adjusted the pacing dynamic of the play.

I wanted effects which intensified battle MORE based on it but instead 5e gave us rip.....

Yeah, the abandonment of the Bloodied status/idea seems like one of the worst aspects of 5e pretending 4e mostly didn't exist. Because it was actually useful, adds almost no complexity (one very simple status) in return for a LOT of potential engagement and interest, and you don't have to track it if you don't want to. It's the definition of a nice, simple opt-in mechanic that can be used but doesn't have to be--seemingly perfect fit for the shadow of "modularity" that 5e ended up with in practice.

ChameleonX · Jun 5, 2019

Garthanos said:
I think this may not be so necessary the strict control of multiclassing wasn't necessarily a feature... unless you think the flexible multiclassing created problems of balance in 5e?

I actually prefer the 5e system, honestly, but it does unbalance the system to a ridiculous degree. A single level of Cleric is enough to get a Wizard in full plate wielding a Greatsword, with minimal impact on Spell Progression AND the ability to heal. Either way, if the intent is to get as close as possible to 4e, then the 3e-style Multi-Classing has to go.

Garthanos said:
Those last parts are kind of work heavy it sounds like. (though on an individual basis fixing each monster may not be hard)

Yeah, that's why I lumped them together like that. It really depends on how close you want the mechanics to mirror 4th. If you're okay with the 5e class features, then it's not as much work. Otherwise, you basically have to gut each class and start from scratch.

Although, if I was doing this for my own game, I would do it the way 4e SHOULD have done it in the first place and simply have class powers shared between all classes within a power source, with a handful of unique ones for each class.

That way, instead of literally every Martial class having a power that does 2[W] damage and knocks the target prone, you just make that power once and give multiple classes access to it.

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

EzekielRaiden said:
Yeah, the abandonment of the Bloodied status/idea seems like one of the worst aspects of 5e pretending 4e mostly didn't exist. Because it was actually useful, adds almost no complexity (one very simple status) in return for a LOT of potential engagement and interest, and you don't have to track it if you don't want to. It's the definition of a nice, simple opt-in mechanic that can be used but doesn't have to be--seemingly perfect fit for the shadow of "modularity" that 5e ended up with in practice.

Race ability Longtooth Shifter - effect in 5e, the 5es worthless fights need to deplete resources just went mostly away for this character.

Edit: since the Longtooth didnt need surges for recovering up to a bloodied amount health in 4e as far as being a work around for resources it wasnt bad in 4e either

doctorbadwolf · Jun 5, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
At level 21. You're probably not immortal until you ascend.

In a big chunk at 21st or 1/2 level? ::shrug::

No big chunk. Just an optional rule that adds +1 per tier to all derived stats.

Garthanos said:
Not to me especially if you arent forcing heros to only use there best scores in skill challenges.

What? No, man, I’m saying you’d just add +1 per tier to everything, as an optional rule.

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

ChameleonX said:
I actually prefer the 5e system, honestly, but it does unbalance the system to a ridiculous degree. A single level of Cleric is enough to get a Wizard in full plate wielding a Greatsword, with minimal impact on Spell Progression AND the ability to heal. Either way, if the intent is to get as close as possible to 4e, then the 3e-style Multi-Classing has to go.

For me the first part is the suck and enough to say no or charge feats for it, but i am up for not being needlessly restrictive I was inclined to open up 4es mc some. Perhaps a new feat is a price of multiclassing to a new class? ie that makes it 4e like and makes that Cleric dip pricier?

ChameleonX said:
I
Yeah, that's why I lumped them together like that. It really depends on how close you want the mechanics to mirror 4th. If you're okay with the 5e class features, then it's not as much work. Otherwise, you basically have to gut each class and start from scratch.

I think I might want every class having AEDs

ChameleonX said:
I
Although, if I was doing this for my own game, I would do it the way 4e SHOULD have done it in the first place and simply have class powers shared between all classes within a power source, with a handful of unique ones for each class.

That way, instead of literally every Martial class having a power that does 2[W] damage and knocks the target prone, you just make that power once and give multiple classes access to it.

I think that works fine.

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

So do we have feats which are 4e normal impact feats and 5e feats as Prime Feats or someone suggested themes.

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
No big chunk. Just an optional rule that adds +1 per tier to all derived stats.

Like this??

1-4 student + 0
5-10 heroic +1
11 - 15 paragon +2
16- 20 epic +3

That is actually far closer to what i was thinking than I thought you were.
Not sure its enough though really.

Zardnaar · Jun 5, 2019

How would people think that healing surges gets replaced with the fighters second wind ability, the difference being its an action to use it and its HD based so a Warlord would get 1d8+level, a fighter gets 1d10+level, a wizard gets 1d6+ level instead of the 4E 25%.Less math personally I'm not to worried about exact 4E representations (looking at concepts). Its doesn't scale exactly with level (its a bigger % level 1 than 20) but its still relative to the HD. 4E could be grindy. The clone would use 5E hit points per leve so the characters would have more HP up front (1 HD+ con modifier vs 4E's fixed amount or fixed amount+ con) Leaders can use a bonus action to trigger them a'la 4E minor healing.

3E MCing would not be used, in any event.