D&D 4E How To Clone 4E Using 5E Rules

Tony Vargas · May 28, 2019

lowkey13 said:
But ... why?

Please, explain this to me as you might a young child, or a golden retriever. Really.

Down! Bad dog! This isn't your yard!

Tony Vargas · May 28, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Most people don't play high levels anyway so level 21-30 is more work for no gain.

Mostly a self-fulfilling prophecy. Scaling in most editions makes very low and high-level play … less than ideal, but the impetus to start at low level just seems too strong (I had honestly hoped 5e'd get us over that, but no, "3rd is the new 1st" just didn't take off). So lots of play at low level, some of it leading to abandoning the campaign before it gets good, play through the sweet spot, start a new campaign.

4e, with it's mechanical-illusion of a 'treadmill' was essentially all "sweet spot," it needed /more/ DM support for Epic, but the system, itself, was functional. Something you'd want to re-capture with a hypothetical 4e clone.

Zardnaar said:
Advice if you're serious about this focus on cloning the playstyle and not the exact 4E interpretation of it. When I play C&C for example I'm not pretending to play 1E. It looks like 3E plays like 1E is a way to describe it I suppose.

Kinda misses the point of a "clone."

Zardnaar · May 28, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
Mostly a self-fulfilling prophecy. Scaling in most editions makes very low and high-level play … less than ideal, but the impetus to start at low level just seems too strong (I had honestly hoped 5e'd get us over that, but no, "3rd is the new 1st" just didn't take off). So lots of play at low level, some of it leading to abandoning the campaign before it gets good, play through the sweet spot, start a new campaign.

4e, with it's mechanical-illusion of a 'treadmill' was essentially all "sweet spot," it needed /more/ DM support for Epic, but the system, itself, was functional. Something you'd want to re-capture with a hypothetical 4e clone.

Kinda misses the point of a "clone."

Some poor sod has to write it all. Are you volunteering?

The OSR clones are not 100% accurate. I have heard OSRIC comes close but OSRIC is obsolete now and I don't think to many people use it.

Tony Vargas · May 28, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Some poor sod has to write it all.

Yep. Can't just copy/paste from an SRD.
If you don't go that exta mile (10 levels), though, you're not cloning it like PF cloned 3.5 or OSRIC cloned 1e, you're just dashing off another fantasy heartbreaker. Which, hey, must be worth it on some level, so many people have done it...

The OSR clones are not 100% accurate. I have heard OSRIC comes close but OSRIC is obsolete now and I don't think to many people use it.

OSRIC is what the other clones are based on though, isn't it? If a 4e clone were practical, legally, it /might/ lead to other games using it as engine, like that, too - or not.
If.

Garthanos · May 29, 2019

Zardnaar said:
You might want toi use AEDU, micro feats, or ye olde grittiness all of which 5E lacks.

I find myself kind of liking both micro and macro feats any ideas on mixing them?

Garthanos · May 29, 2019

Mistwell said:
Just hire a Warlord to shout at the GSL license and heal it into the OGL.

That's a thing, right?

Well I think GSL lacks proper HS to be able to self heal

Yaarel · May 29, 2019

dave2008 said:
True. 1e was such a cluster that, I've come to realize, we ignored or where ignorant of large portions of the game.

That means, you were playing 1e right!

Garthanos · May 29, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
That is, 5e was meant to be a 'big tent' inclusive of the entire fanbase, in spite of how fractured it seemed in the aftermath of the edition war.

Not including the Warlord put that out as an obvious lie to 4e fans.

Yaarel · May 29, 2019

Zardnaar said:
3 tiers lvl 1-7, 8-14. 15-20.

I am a fan of 5 tiers = proficiency bonus improvements.

1-4 (student, apprentice, page, jack) +2
5-8 (professional, journeyer, squire) +3
9-12 (expert, master, knight) +4
13-16 (luminary, grand, noble) +5
17-20 (legend) +6

For 4e-esque ...

1-8 Heroic
9-16 Paragon
17-24(!) Epic

Yaarel · May 29, 2019

Yaarel said:
I am a fan of 5 tiers = proficiency bonus improvements.

1-4 (student, apprentice, page, jack) +2
5-8 (professional, journeyer, squire) +3
9-12 (expert, master, knight) +4
13-16 (luminary, grand, noble) +5
17-20 (legend) +6

For 4e-esque ...

1-8 Heroic
9-16 Paragon
17-24(!) Epic