D&D 4E How To Clone 4E Using 5E Rules

doctorbadwolf · Jun 4, 2019

Garthanos said:
some yeah but honestly I want heros to really outclass the blue blazes of the challenges they had 1 tier ago ... and bounded accuracy in 5e numbers doesnt look like it gives us that. I have described it as my chosen one of the goddess at level 23 in 4e is still better at bluffing the of a mayor because of her breadth of experience and confidence she has levelling regardless of putting points into deception or charisma. NOT so in 5e she is a schlup at it.

I get where you're coming from, there. Easy enough to just add a tier bonus to all skills, though. As an optional rule, because honestly i never liked that in 4e. A person is still a person at level 26, or at least should be. Also, she should convince the mayor because he is impressed by who she is. Otherwise, why shouldn't she be bad at some things? She's still a mortal person with flaws and shortcomings.

ChameleonX · Jun 4, 2019

How to Convert 5e to 4e
- Add 10 Levels
- Proficiency Bonus = 1/2 Character Level (round down).
- Allow all players to take an extra bonus action by spending either an Action and/or all of their movement for a turn (Max 3 Bonus actions).
- Add "Second Wind" action for all classes, allowing them to spend hit dice during combat. Optional: Remove the fighter feature of the same name.
- Allow all characters to take two reactions per turn, but only one can be an opportunity attack.
- Add "Action Surge" as an option for all characters, replace the Fighter feature with the Sentinel feat.
- All characters gain ALL of their subclass features at 11th level. Channel Divinity powers are removed from subclasses and given as options at level 1.
- Add a similar upgrade and/or specialization at 20th level, in lieu of further class features.
- Forbid Multi-Classing. Create feats that provide basic class abilities (e.g. Wild Shape, Sneak Attack, etc) instead.
- Retrofit each class individually to adhere to the AEDU model, using the Warlock and Battlemaster Fighter as a model.
- Make all the monsters actually interesting, and not just a big bag of hit points with one gimmick each.

Tony Vargas · Jun 4, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
Otherwise, why shouldn't she be bad at some things? She's still a mortal person with flaws and shortcomings.

Is she? She might've taken the Demigod epic destiny. In which case, not so mortal, and with big, dramatic /tragic/ flaws...
… not just "oops I burned the cakes."

doctorbadwolf · Jun 5, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
Is she? She might've taken the Demigod epic destiny. In which case, not so mortal, and with big, dramatic /tragic/ flaws...
… not just "oops I burned the cakes."

At level 26? By the book, I don’t think you’re actually a Demi-god until you ascend.

Anyway, that is better solved with an Epic bonus to skills and saves than with a math treadmill, IMO.

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
Also, she should convince the mayor because he is impressed by who she is.

Correct and in 5e the numbers are not reflecting the flavor text they stole that flavor text from 4e but let mechanics which supported it? dribble off and one of those is progressive ability. Leveling up is measuring some really broad vague stuff according to the fluff in both games you are not even the same order of being it really is in the flavor text to match the person you are at level 26 ie is walking in god stuff. Most epic characters are becoming demigods and gods chosen ones and so on and paragon is even working towards that.... and one general way of putting that measure in to the mechanics is by putting on a general competence rating so that I get better because of confidence and breadth of knowledge not just focus.

To me its just innadequate failure of mechanics to match intent.

Oh but casters they get progressive ability up the wazoo with more and more spells learned due to vancian some I have read having very broad impact.... but skill users nope. Because remember 5e is backwards "friendly".

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
At level 26? By the book, I don’t think you’re actually a Demi-god until you ascend.

Read the powers you get at paragon... by 26 you have been progressing towards it a long time and coming back from the dead of your own volition is on the list at 24.

And no the same problem is happening with Paragon. Its just patently obvious in Epic

Its a dropped ball and to me its not coincidental that it has massively less impact for casters.

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
Is she? She might've taken the Demigod epic destiny. In which case, not so mortal, and with big, dramatic /tragic/ flaws...
… not just "oops I burned the cakes."

Not all of them are even that gradual some you are immediately ageless and gain immortal origins and big functional wings.... quite honestly I think the general progression assumes you are going to be walking in these circles,

An epic adventure where your chosen of the gods is unable to bluff the Mayor whom your bard had only mild issues with at level 1 is .... a failure AND likely to occur mechanically in 5e UNLESS the DM avoids it with the power of plot.

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
A
Anyway, that is better solved with an Epic bonus to skills and saves than with a math treadmill, IMO.

Not to me especially if you arent forcing heros to only use there best scores in skill challenges.

Tony Vargas · Jun 5, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
At level 26? By the book, I don’t think you’re actually a Demi-god until you ascend.

At level 21. You're probably not immortal until you ascend.

Anyway, that is better solved with an Epic bonus to skills and saves than with a math treadmill, IMO.

In a big chunk at 21st or 1/2 level? ::shrug::

Garthanos · Jun 5, 2019

ChameleonX said:
How to Convert 5e to 4e
- Add 10 Levels

Start at level 5 I was thinking stretching levels instead

ChameleonX said:
- Proficiency Bonus = 1/2 Character Level (round down).
- Allow all players to take an extra bonus action by spending either an Action and/or all of their movement for a turn (Max 3 Bonus actions).
- Add "Second Wind" action for all classes, allowing them to spend hit dice during combat. Optional: Remove the fighter feature of the same name.
- Allow all characters to take two reactions per turn, but only one can be an opportunity attack.
- Add "Action Surge" as an option for all characters, replace the Fighter feature with the Sentinel feat.
- All characters gain ALL of their subclass features at 11th level. Channel Divinity powers are removed from subclasses and given as options at level 1.
- Add a similar upgrade and/or specialization at 20th level, in lieu of further class features.
- Forbid Multi-Classing.

I think this may not be so necessary the strict control of multiclassing wasn't necessarily a feature... unless you think the flexible multiclassing created problems of balance in 5e?

ChameleonX said:
Create feats that provide basic class abilities (e.g. Wild Shape, Sneak Attack, etc) instead.
- Retrofit each class individually to adhere to the AEDU model, using the Warlock and Battlemaster Fighter as a model.
- Make all the monsters actually interesting, and not just a big bag of hit points with one gimmick each.

Those last parts are kind of work heavy it sounds like. (though on an individual basis fixing each monster may not be hard)