D&D 2E Returning to 2nd Edition

dave2008 · May 30, 2019

Zardnaar said:
5E does some things extremely poor. There's big hit point inflation, a lot of magic, healing, and RAW it's a cakewalk starting at level 5 or so.

Of course one person's "poor" is another persons "perfect"

The Crimson Binome · May 30, 2019

dave2008 said:
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Do you want to be hit less, but have less hit points?

Ideally, yes. You know, like it was back in the 2E era. It was relatively easy to make a character that could only be hit on a 20, which was a good thing, because one or two hits and you were down for the count. (At least, that's how it was at my specific table. I'm well aware that AD&D was highly variable between tables.)

dave2008 said:
I got a disagree with you there. I've tried it a few times and can never get over the finish line. My 1e house rules were about 20 pages. But as soon as I tried to make it my own game we stopped playing

I guess it's a matter of free time and motivation. Personally, it took me about four months, putting in an hour or two every day. I had a fairly strong motivation, though, in that my significant other wanted to learn how to play and I absolutely refused to subject her to the horrors of 5E.

Mistwell · May 30, 2019

One of my current DMs also runs a 2e game. For him, 2e remains a great game, except for the proliferation of magic items. He says the magic item Christmas tree is a real thing, and he focuses on trying to deal with that.

dave2008 · May 30, 2019

Saelorn said:
Ideally, yes. You know, like it was back in the 2E era. It was relatively easy to make a character that could only be hit on a 20, which was a good thing, because one or two hits and you were down for the count. (At least, that's how it was at my specific table. I'm well aware that AD&D was highly variable between tables.)

That is not my recollection, so I can't really speak to that. But it seems like a fairly easy fix. Limit HP (simple) and bump AC (also simple)

Saelorn said:
I guess it's a matter of free time and motivation. Personally, it took me about four months, putting in an hour or two every day. I had a fairly strong motivation, though, in that my significant other wanted to learn how to play and I absolutely refused to subject her to the horrors of 5E.

LOL, - OK, you really are a fan of hyperbole.

Tony Vargas · May 30, 2019

dave2008 said:
This seems a bit hyperbolic. I haven't done the math, but there a several levers just with rest, healing, and death mechanics that get you 90% of the way there. If that is not good enough, then you simply need to lessen the number of HP you things get serious fast.

I'm not sure where people get the idea 2e was anymore some sort of grueling fantasy Vietnam, anyway. There was a lot of magic available, cleric could heal more than they could in 1e. I see people going on over rates of natural healing and, it's like, see that glowy guy in armor, 'natural healing' is purely theoretical, if you try to rest long enough to get back 1 hp on your own, he'll have a full slate of Cure [Severity] Wounds to slap on you before those little scratches that constitute anything from 1 hp to 80, depending on your level, can so much as scab over.

dave2008 said:
Of course one person's "poor" is another persons "perfect"

Would that be "poorfect?"

dave2008 said:
That is not my recollection, so I can't really speak to that. But it seems like a fairly easy fix. Limit HP (simple) and bump AC (also simple)

He's talking very low level. The same was true in 1e. The game quickly shifted from getting hit infrequently - and often killed if you were - to getting hit all the time, but having plenty of hp & healing to suck it up - and dishing so much damage you could generally puree the monsters first. Plus, of course, the further you got along that curve, the more it was likely to be obviated by a rock/paper/scissors/lizard/Spock right-spell-or-magic-item-wins dynamic.

And, really, 5e captures that, but, if anything, moreso: kinda randomly lethal, at first (1st), rapidly ballooning hps/damage, ...
... maybe not s'much lizard/Spock for want of make/buy & calibrated random treasure tables.

Shiroiken · May 30, 2019

If you want the same lethality of 2E, all attacks deal double damage. Attacks that hit by 5 more than AC deal 3x damage. Attacks that hit by 10 more deal 4x damage. You won't be using feats, so you don't have to deal with the -5/+10 balance. Hits are brutal, especially if you have low AC.

Zardnaar · May 30, 2019

Found my 2E houserules. They are as follows (abbreviated I have nice tables etc).

BAB over THAC0

Level Limits: None

Humans Humans gain a +1 bonus on an ability score of their choice, a bonus weapon proficiency and non weapon proficiency.

Ascending numbers on armor type

Why would you play 2E over 5E? 5E still lacks a lot of things such as psionics and settings like Darksun/Planescape etc. Older editions also do certain things better, for example B/X pushed the exploration pillar a lot, game balance is arguably better as well, kinda of easier to run in a lot of ways (esp encounter design) and it does certain things that are just different. For example 2e is grittier.

Or I'll use an other example. A modern jet is objectively better than an old tiger moth (except maybe Boeing). Its faster, more comfortable etc etc etc. In 1994 my brother took me up in a tiger moth. Sheepskin jacket, open cockpit, ye olde flying helmet with goggles. He did a loop the loop and pointed the nose at the ground and spun the plane.

The jet is pretty much better right but the Tiger moth was an experience and no matter how hard the jet tries it can't deliver that experience. You don't get the feeling of the wind in our face, the engine noise, the terror of looking up and you're looking at the city of Christchurch below you. You also avoid the feeling of two leather straps with a metal pin holding you in a plane with no parachute. Ones the better plane the other one is more fun.

Well AD&D is that tiger moth, its out classed in most ways but its an experience.

CleverNickName · May 30, 2019

I've been known to run the occasional BECMI one-shot game every blue moon, when my pals are feeling nostalgic. But I've never done any long-term game in an older edition.

Prakriti · May 30, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
I'm not sure where people get the idea 2e was anymore some sort of grueling fantasy Vietnam, anyway.

How many times has a character fallen unconscious in your 5E games? Those would all be deaths in 2E.

cbwjm · May 30, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Found my 2E houserules. They are as follows (abbreviated I have nice tables etc).

BAB over THAC0

Level Limits: None

Humans Humans gain a +1 bonus on an ability score of their choice, a bonus weapon proficiency and non weapon proficiency.

Ascending numbers on armor type

Is that all? My humans are similar, I found some notes where humans gain a +1 to an ability score of their choice with a maximum of 18.

Edit: I also think that I would include bonus hit points at level 1 based on race or on class. I'm not sure which I prefer. Either something like all humans gain +8 hit points, Dwarves +10, elves, gnomes, and halflings +6 at level 1 or instead each PC gains bonus hit points equal to the maximum of their class hit die.