Baldurs Gate 3 apparently in development (with evidence)

Xaelvaen · Jun 3, 2019

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
There's also no need for a kickstarter, Larian Studios has plenty of money from the massive sales of Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2. They weren't going to kickstart D:OS2 but were convinced by indie developers that big name kickstarters attract users to kickstarter so that smaller projects also get more pledges while they're running.

Oh I certainly understand D:OS making them quite the brand name, so to speak. As indicated, the lack of kickstarter is to -my- sadness. The great optionals you can pick up, and the typically discounted price, are why I've backed quite a few successful kickstarted games. However, whatever is best for their company, works for me in the long run.

gyor · Jun 3, 2019

To compare to it's most recent rival, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Kingmaker started out with playable Clerics, Wizard, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, Barbarians, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, Sorcerers, Magus, Inquistitors, and Alchemists, each with at least 3 Archetypes, plus bloodlines, domains, and so on. It later added Kinetist and Slayer classes, each with three archetypes. The 5e PHB has the Clerics, Wizard, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, Barbarians, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, Sorcerers, Warlock. That is 14 classes with 42 archetypes plus numerus bloodlines, Domains, ect.... vs 12 classes with 39 subclasses. Add in Slayer and Kinetist and that is 16 classes with 48 subclasses.

It also had 8 races to start with, Human, Elf, Dwarf, Hafling, Half Elf, Half Orc, Gnome, Aasimar (with Regular, Garuda, Angel, Archon, Guardinal substitute, Azata, Peri subraces.) Then added later Tieflings (with Regular, Oni, Demon, Devil, Kyton, Daemon, Div, Qlippoth, Rakshasa, Asura subraces.)

So BG 3 tries to be competive with that, it will have to have all the PHB classes and subclasses, races and subraces at minium, but that still won't be as many options as PF: KM when it comes classes/subclasses. That is

Human, Human Variant,
Elf (Drow, High Elf, Wild Elf subraces), Dwarf (Mountain, Hill), Halfling (Lightfoot, Stoutheart), Gnome (Rock, Forest), Half Elf, Half ODragonborn, Tieflings. That is 8 races with 7 subraces vs 9 races and 9 subraces. If you add in PF Tieflings that is 9 races with 17 subraces.

To stay competitive, I think 5e will have to have more then just the PHB races, subraces, and subclasses, as 5e doesn't have anywhere near the classes the PF: Kingmaker does which is just a fraction of Pathfinder classes period. One area that 5e could gain an advantage is races and subraces.

Prakriti · Jun 3, 2019

gyor said:
To compare to it's most recent rival, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Kingmaker started out with playable Clerics, Wizard, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, Barbarians, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, Sorcerers, Magus, Inquistitors, and Alchemists, each with at least 3 Archetypes, plus bloodlines, domains, and so on. It later added Kinetist and Slayer classes, each with three archetypes. The 5e PHB has the Clerics, Wizard, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, Barbarians, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, Sorcerers, Warlock. That is 14 classes with 42 archetypes plus numerus bloodlines, Domains, ect.... vs 12 classes with 39 subclasses. Add in Slayer and Kinetist and that is 16 classes with 48 subclasses.

It also had 8 races to start with, Human, Elf, Dwarf, Hafling, Half Elf, Half Orc, Gnome, Aasimar (with Regular, Garuda, Angel, Archon, Guardinal substitute, Azata, Peri subraces.) Then added later Tieflings (with Regular, Oni, Demon, Devil, Kyton, Daemon, Div, Qlippoth, Rakshasa, Asura subraces.)

So BG 3 tries to be competive with that, it will have to have all the PHB classes and subclasses, races and subraces at minium

And you know what BG1 and BG2 had? Amazing gameplay, memorable characters, and a great storyline. _That's_ what BG3 will be measured against, not some meaningless metric like character customization options. If the developers actually think that stuff is important, then they've already missed the point of the series.

SkidAce · Jun 3, 2019

gyor said:
...
To stay competitive, I think 5e will have to have more then just the PHB races, subraces, and subclasses, as 5e doesn't have anywhere near the classes the PF: Kingmaker does which is just a fraction of Pathfinder classes period. One area that 5e could gain an advantage is races and subraces.

PH is more than enough to say competitive in my opinion. There's more to it than just character options.

gyor · Jun 3, 2019

Parmandur said:
No money quite like Google money...how much do you want to wager that Google is filled to the brim with old fans of the original?

If Google money is backing this and it's one of their centre stars for their new Stadia platform then the sky is the limit in terms of graphics, features, sound, classes, subclasses, races, subraces, feats, spells, and so on. Google will likely expect a lot out of this game.

gyor · Jun 3, 2019

SkidAce said:
PH is more than enough to say competitive in my opinion. There's more to it than just character options.

Given the importance of BG 3 to the announcement of Stadia on June 6th and the nature of the competition, I expect they will be more ambitious, but I could be wrong.

MarkB · Jun 3, 2019

Prakriti said:
And you know what BG1 and BG2 had? Amazing gameplay, memorable characters, and a great storyline. _That's_ what BG3 will be measured against, not some meaningless metric like character customization options. If the developers actually think that stuff is important, then they've already missed the point of the series.

But they did also have a good implementation of the ruleset and plenty of character options, and those things made the good story a lot more fun to play through. It's not one or the other - you need both.

Parmandur · Jun 4, 2019

gyor said:
To compare to it's most recent rival, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Kingmaker started out with playable Clerics, Wizard, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, Barbarians, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, Sorcerers, Magus, Inquistitors, and Alchemists, each with at least 3 Archetypes, plus bloodlines, domains, and so on. It later added Kinetist and Slayer classes, each with three archetypes. The 5e PHB has the Clerics, Wizard, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, Barbarians, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, Sorcerers, Warlock. That is 14 classes with 42 archetypes plus numerus bloodlines, Domains, ect.... vs 12 classes with 39 subclasses. Add in Slayer and Kinetist and that is 16 classes with 48 subclasses.

It also had 8 races to start with, Human, Elf, Dwarf, Hafling, Half Elf, Half Orc, Gnome, Aasimar (with Regular, Garuda, Angel, Archon, Guardinal substitute, Azata, Peri subraces.) Then added later Tieflings (with Regular, Oni, Demon, Devil, Kyton, Daemon, Div, Qlippoth, Rakshasa, Asura subraces.)

So BG 3 tries to be competive with that, it will have to have all the PHB classes and subclasses, races and subraces at minium, but that still won't be as many options as PF: KM when it comes classes/subclasses. That is

Human, Human Variant,
Elf (Drow, High Elf, Wild Elf subraces), Dwarf (Mountain, Hill), Halfling (Lightfoot, Stoutheart), Gnome (Rock, Forest), Half Elf, Half ODragonborn, Tieflings. That is 8 races with 7 subraces vs 9 races and 9 subraces. If you add in PF Tieflings that is 9 races with 17 subraces.

To stay competitive, I think 5e will have to have more then just the PHB races, subraces, and subclasses, as 5e doesn't have anywhere near the classes the PF: Kingmaker does which is just a fraction of Pathfinder classes period. One area that 5e could gain an advantage is races and subraces.

I don't think Kingmaker is going to weigh that much into their design.

gyor · Jun 4, 2019

Parmandur said:
I don't think Kingmaker is going to weigh that much into their design.

You'd be surprised. Devs play a lot of attention to their competitors and the reactions to their games.

WotC's D&D team plays TRPGs from other companies for example. Age of Wonders: Planetfall for example borrows influences from Civilization, Endless Legend, and others.

Right now the closest game to BG 2 is Pathfinder: Kingmaker, so yeah they will likely have looked closely at PF: KM, as well as Divinity: Original Sin II, Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, Numenera: Tides of Torment, and the Enhanced Editions of BG, BG 2, Icewind Dale, NWN1 & 2, ect... But most of all PF: KM.

gyor · Jun 4, 2019

Prakriti said:
And you know what BG1 and BG2 had? Amazing gameplay, memorable characters, and a great storyline. _That's_ what BG3 will be measured against, not some meaningless metric like character customization options. If the developers actually think that stuff is important, then they've already missed the point of the series.

A lot of fans care about getting to play the races and classes that they like do it's not meaningless at all.