GM's Knowing the Rules

Zhaleskra

Adventurer
The GM should be able to keep track of the core of the system in their head. On top of that, they should have notes of where to find the rules for specific other cases that are likely to come up in games, or some method of having those rules easily accessible in another form: screen, notebook, etc. Rules used less often can be looked up as needed.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Xaelvaen

Stuck in the 90s
Honest mistakes? Couldn't care less, as long as they are mistakes. In fact, a lot of new GMs I've seen at the local FLGS will ask advice from those of us who've been playing longer if they need to make a decision or reference a rule - and that gives me a lot of hope for the future of the hobby. It takes a great deal of maturity to rely on others, even in the position of Dungeon Master.

Intentional decisions should be discussed with the whole table before the game starts, and not -after- a player has chosen that feat the GM really really hates.
 

Nobody gets a pass on learning the rules. As a player, even if your character is not a spellcaster you should be learning ALL the rules a player should know regarding spellcasting.

Wow. This is a very high bar! This would filter out any casual players, and I know many experienced gamers who don't know the rules subsystems for things they're not interested in (e.g., someone who loves playing martial characters and doesn't care to learn the spellcasting system). I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's nearly the opposite of my approach as a GM. But, then again, my approach is focused on beginners and people who don't identify as gamers.

Everyone knows the rules so that the gameplay can be about something other than the rules.

I like the idea behind this. My goal is always to make gameplay about the dynamic story rather than the rules. But I've found that beyond a few basics, most players don't need to fully digest the rules in order to participate in building a collaborative story. Particularly if the genre expectations are understood, then it's just a matter of imagining your character in the fictional circumstances and describing what you'd like them to do. As GM, I can respond rapidly and adjust their sense of the fiction as needed ("Don't forget that the slippery floor might make this harder than usual. Do you want to try anyway?") The rest of it gets picked up pretty quickly in play. If I or one of the other players notice someone making mechanically suboptimal choices regularly, we'll offer suggestions (whether during play or afterward). So I'm not convinced that every person at the table needs to master the rules in order to keep them behind the scenes.

As to the point of the thread, though, it is tough to play if neither the GM nor the players know the rules. I definitely see that with some of the children's groups that I supervise at school. Nobody wants to crack the books, so they just make it all up. (Even then, though, it's not a bad way to get into the hobby. Many of these kids come back the following year and ask to borrow the books so that they can learn the ropes better.)
 

pemerton

Legend
I haven't played or read Apocalypse World, though I'm curious to check it out. I have a copy of Dungeon World, but haven't had a chance to play it. As a GM, I'm sure I would try to be on top of the rules too, because that's the way I do things. As a player, though, I have been surprised that I am not really bothered at all when the GM gets things wrong. I'd be happy to play Apocalypse World with a GM who had only had time to read through things once and was going to have to wing it quite a bit. After the session, we could all discuss the places where we got it wrong and I'd be good to give it another go. Unlike some who have posted, I don't care too much about rules consistency across sessions (within reason). I would be more frustrated if the fiction itself wasn't consistent or if the GM seemed to switch up genre expectations randomly.
The AW rulebook has examples of "mistakes and corrections" in adjudication. The expectation, as modelled by those examples, is that the GM and players will correct errors in calling for particular moves during play. One of the reasons for that is that calling for the wrong move is likely to produce inconsistent fiction.

As an example, if a player has his/her PC "go aggro" then a possible outcome is that the other party takes the consequences - eg if a player has his/her PC threaten to shoot a NPC if they don't do such-and-such, then an option for the GM is to have his/her PC suck it up and be shot. This will cause an incoherence in the fiction if the player wasn't actually intending to have his/her PC follow through on the threat. In that latter case, the proper resulotion frameworkd is "seduce/manipulate".

So calling for and adjudicating the right move is intimately connected to coherence in the fiction.

More generally, I think that the connection between rules and fiction in some RPGs (I'm thinking eg these Vincent Baker games, and MHRP/Cortex+ Heroic) is more "intimate" than in (say) AD&D. So mucking up the rules is muchking up the fiction. So rather than "winging it" rules-wise, I think it's important to try to work out how the system is meant to play.
 

Wow. This is a very high bar! This would filter out any casual players, and I know many experienced gamers who don't know the rules subsystems for things they're not interested in (e.g., someone who loves playing martial characters and doesn't care to learn the spellcasting system). I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's nearly the opposite of my approach as a GM. But, then again, my approach is focused on beginners and people who don't identify as gamers.
It doesn't filter out casual players because, as I said, the point is all players are (or should be) entering the game accepting the obvious fact that there are hundreds of pages of rules to the game. They can't just show up week after week after week with no clue how to actually play. They need to read the rules. They need to become familiar with the rules. If they want it that way of not knowing more than a bare minimum of rules (and the GM actually doesn't care) then my perception is that is an intolerably LOW bar.

All players should come to understand ALL of what's happening in the game outside of their PC's turn. Just because they only need to know the narrow set of rules for their martial character to take actions, doesn't mean they can then just turn off their brain, ignore what happens after that, and then pay attention again only when their name is called in the initiative order. Again, they don't have to memorize the other rules but HELL YES they should, as time goes by, read those other rules too, understand them, and appreciate what the other PC's and foes are doing, how the game mechanics control what others do and thus further understand what their own PC can do to help/hinder them, etc.

This is actually something I now specifically make clear to players, old and new. It came about because I had players who not only didn't learn anything of the game outside of simple melee, they didn't even bother to learn simple melee sufficiently to not have to have it repeatedly explained to them EVERY session: "This is what you roll to hit, roll that for damage, ADD this, subtract that, NO... saving throws are there, I told you your movement already and it's written RIGHT THERE," and so forth. They were not learning impaired either. They just couldn't be arsed to BOTHER. So, I let players know that if they are in for a penny they're in for a pound. That is not a filter to prevent casual players. It's a filter to weed out dead-weight players.

Particularly if the genre expectations are understood, then it's just a matter of imagining your character in the fictional circumstances and describing what you'd like them to do.
Nope. The 5E PH is 300 pages. That's daunting, but nobody is expected to memorize all of it, or even grok it ALL right away. Again - I'm not going to test anyone on its contents, ever, no matter how long they've been playing. But if after a couple sessions a player still doesn't understand how the mechanics of their character actually works such that they DO NOT need it explained to them, then either they have disabilities or they're dead weight: "Drag me and my PC to where the combat is and wake me when we get there because I'm not into the rest of it. I just wanna kill stuff." Nope. Not in my game you're not. What a player like that wants is a computer game which will throw mindless enemies at their avatar until they puke. In D&D your ACTIVE participation is required, both in and out of combat, for EVERY PC.

Even casual players, if they are actually interested in the game and not just killing time like it's another game on their phone, don't need and wouldn't want a permanent crutch like permission to never have to actually learn the rules. If a player plays for a year, even if they only ever play a martial character, they should at least be perfectly familiar with how spells work, and even if they don't care to play a spellcaster, they at least could do so in a pinch. Knowing how spells and casting works is part of the game, whether your martial PC ever uses a spell or not. If nothing else it means that a casual player of only martial characters will at least have a clue what the heck is going on when it's NOT their PC's turn in combat.

The rest of it gets picked up pretty quickly in play.
And I said as much. Players can at least pay attention to what's happening outside of their PC's turn in combat and look up stuff in their PH that they don't understand, whether they use it for their PC or not, and learn what doesn't DIRECTLY apply to their PC over time. And again, if they are truly interested in D&D, whether casual players or not, they'll WANT to know more than just one narrow slice of the games rules leaving the rest of it a total mystery.

So I'm not convinced that every person at the table needs to master the rules in order to keep them behind the scenes.
And I'm emphatically not saying "rules MASTERY", I'm saying "rules FAMILIARITY". And nobody gets a pass on that. If I've had a player at my table for a year and they tell me, "I can't play a wizard because I don't know the first thing about spells in the game," then _I_ have failed as a GM, and the other players have also failed as friends to properly teach them the game, and that player has also willfully missed out on even basic understanding of MASSIVE portions of the game. I'm not sure such a player could even exist as they'd be too lost and confused, too bored outside of their characters turn in combat to have kept coming back.

As to the point of the thread, though, it is tough to play if neither the GM nor the players know the rules. I definitely see that with some of the children's groups that I supervise at school. Nobody wants to crack the books, so they just make it all up. (Even then, though, it's not a bad way to get into the hobby. Many of these kids come back the following year and ask to borrow the books so that they can learn the ropes better.)
And if the GM openly states to otherwise mature players that the rules don't really matter (and playing/teaching the game to actual children as opposed to at least adolescents is another matter), then a good time can still be had by all, but the point of the thread is then also moot.

The longer anyone plays the game, the less they should need to have things explained, not just about their PC, but about any of the other rules as well. The more they know about the game rules beyond just their PC the more they unquestionably must be getting out of the game.
 
Last edited:

Tony Vargas

Legend
, the point is all players are (or should be) entering the game accepting the obvious fact that there are hundreds of pages of rules to the game. They can't just show up week after week after week with no clue how to actually play.
Well, if they do show up week after week they'll pick up how to actually play pretty quickly.
 

HJFudge

Explorer
Well, if they do show up week after week they'll pick up how to actually play pretty quickly.

You'd think. However, there is an exception to this I like to call the 'significant other' exception. When one party member is only showing up because they are the significant other of one of the other party members, they tend not to learn or retain anything. They are there to hang out with their wife/husband/gf/bf/whatever, rather than play. They often end up being told what to do, and end up being basically a second PC for the player who showed up to actually play. It is one reason I dislike letting people's Sig Others join my groups, because I know they aren't going to be adding much to the play at the table.
 


They need to read the rules. They need to become familiar with the rules. If they want it that way of not knowing more than a bare minimum of rules (and the GM actually doesn't care) then my perception is that is an intolerably LOW bar.

I appreciate your thorough explanation. It doesn't match my own experience, but I certainly respect your preferred playstyle. The quote above had me chuckling because when I pitch RPGs to non-gamers, I explicitly tell them that there is no expectation that they read the rulebooks! (I don't imply that this is universal though... just my own table expectations.)

All players should come to understand ALL of what's happening in the game outside of their PC's turn. Just because they only need to know the narrow set of rules for their martial character to take actions, doesn't mean they can then just turn off their brain, ignore what happens after that, and then pay attention again only when their name is called in the initiative order.

To me, this seems to be a different issue than knowing the rules. I certainly expect players to pay attention throughout a game session, whether or not it is their turn. If not, eventually they will not be invited back. But paying attention to the martial artist doing her awesome chi moves doesn't require understanding the mechanics of the martial arts subsystem. It's enough to know that she can poke someone and cause them to pass out or that she can run up walls and across the ceiling. Even if they suddenly had to play that character for some reason, there's still no baseline requirement that they know how it all works under the hood. They know enough to say, "I run up to the ceiling and start throwing my shuriken!" That's where the awesome is, as far as I'm concerned.

That is not a filter to prevent casual players. It's a filter to weed out dead-weight players.

I haven't experienced quite the same degree of dead-weight before, but I suppose I would also be frustrated if someone couldn't find basic info on their character sheet after a few sessions. I have definitely disinvited players before who just didn't seem into it. I've got plenty of people eager to join the group, so I don't see why we should hold a spot for someone who isn't 100% in. I just define 100% differently; I want them 100% invested in their character and the shared fiction. If the game books make their eyes glaze over, I'm fine with that. (Some of my best players over the years have been that sort.)
 

ccs

41st lv DM
You'd think. However, there is an exception to this I like to call the 'significant other' exception. When one party member is only showing up because they are the significant other of one of the other party members, they tend not to learn or retain anything. They are there to hang out with their wife/husband/gf/bf/whatever, rather than play. They often end up being told what to do, and end up being basically a second PC for the player who showed up to actually play. It is one reason I dislike letting people's Sig Others join my groups, because I know they aren't going to be adding much to the play at the table.

As the DM I've got a cure for that. And no, it isn't banning the S.O. or booting them. I engage them full on with the story. They'll participate as their own character, learn the relevant mechanics, & have to retain things because I'll put the spotlight on them just as equally as I will the other players.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top