GM's Knowing the Rules

uzirath · May 31, 2019

In the How do you get to GURPS? thread, [MENTION=6685730]DMMike[/MENTION] brought up an issue that intrigues me, but strays enough from the topic to deserve its own thread:

DMMike said:
There are also the players (like me) who will want to know and use the rules without GM assistance, because there's the possibility that the GM says he knows the rules, but doesn't.

As a player, how important is it to you that the GM gets all the rules right?

For the purposes of this thread, I'm setting aside edge case horror stories of awful GMs who play favorites, break rules willy nilly for self-serving reasons, apply wildly different rules to their pet NPCs, etc.

In my experience, when I play with a beginning GM, mistakes and errors don't usually bother me. I rarely interrupt play to make corrections—typically only if the GM is asking for help. After the game, I'll sometimes point things out, but usually more to let them know that there may be unexpected implications if they keep running things one way. Other than that, I just figure what the GM says goes. If she handles situational modifiers differently than the book, I'm good as long as it doesn't shatter my suspension of disbelief.

lowkey13 · May 31, 2019

*Deleted by user*

pogre · May 31, 2019

I'm good with a GM struggling with some of the rules early in the campaign. I would much rather have her make a call and move the game forward than stop every five minutes to look a rule up.

Typically, that's what I do with a new set of rules - make a call and move on. After the game, when I send the players a summary I have a section where I explain which calls I got right and which ones I got wrong. I correct things according to my newer understanding of the game and I incorporate those correct rulings going forward.

As long as the GM/DM is attempting to learn the rules in a pro-active way as the campaign moves forward - I am really fairly tolerant.

Nagol · May 31, 2019

It quite important to me that the GM knows the rules. The rules act as a shared expectation for how the game world works, what my PC should expect to be able to accomplish and the basic difficulty of actions in the universe. If I base my actions on those expectations and the GM uses a different set to adjudicate, I'm essentially throwing darts while blindfolded.

I don't mind a GM that needs to refer to rules though. They'll learn which ones come up frequently soon enough.

doctorbadwolf · May 31, 2019

I expect the DM to know the rules fairly well, and to not change the rules to “nerf” the PCs unless soemthing actually breaks the game. I also am fine with checking rules, as long as it doesn’t grind the game to a halt. A pause is fine, but if it takes longer than an average combat turn to find a rule, just make a ruling and move on.

Also, I know the rules very, very well, as do some other players. Don’t let your ego stop you from listening to your players. If you can’t trust them, don’t play with them.

cmad1977 · May 31, 2019

The more I DM the more I find rules I wasn’t using correctly or didn’t know.

So I don’t really hold it against DMs that are ‘wrong’ or unclear. If there’s something I know better I’d hope they would accept my input.

HJFudge · May 31, 2019

I don't mind them not knowing 100% of the rules. But they should be familiar enough with the rulebooks/sources to be able to quickly find the rules that they are unfamiliar with.

Mistakes are okay, in moderation. However, if its a constant string of misreading of rules (especially if the misreading of the rules CHANGES each time) then it becomes an issue.

Rule Mastery is important for a GM. This is something that is gained over time, obviously, and takes effort and work and constantly re-reading the rules of your chosen ruleset. If the GM is new to the system (or to GMing in general), its fine if the games first couple sessions are slower as they get a handle on how things work and look things up.

But if its session 12 and the pace is still a crawl because they are STILL having to look everything up, It is an issue. This is also an issue on the player side too. If a player isn't familiar enough about how their character works by the 4th or 5th session to make timely decisions and know how their abilities/powers/whatever works, then that is an issue for me.

If I GM for a group, in any system, I expect the players to put in effort just as I am putting in effort. If I am taking the time to learn the rules so the pace of play can be quick and interesting, they should at least invest enough to know how to play their character at least at a minimum level of competence. Otherwise, game sessions drag and become unplayable for me, as we waste everyones limited time re-explaining rules for the 10th time.

So, in short: The GMs (and players!) knowing their system rules well is quite important to me.

Ralif Redhammer · May 31, 2019

Same – if I make a mistake with a ruling I’ll totally cop to it next session. Sometimes I’ll even tell the group “this is my ruling right now, but I will do some research and provide an authoritative one next session.”

Most of the time, when I’m a player, it’s at a con game. As long as it’s not egregious, I’m fine with a GM flubbing a rule. If everyone is having fun at the table, I find it easy to gloss over that sort of thing and focus on the good parts. Plus, at cons it’s often in a noisy room, the GM has probably been running games for days, and has just met a brand-new set of players that they don’t know.

Now, when I’m running, if I get a rule wrong, I’m totally open to being corrected. If I’m in the wrong, I want to know and be able to learn from it. There are also some grey areas in many RPGs, and a short discussion can help with the ruling I have to make.

When it comes to knowing PC abilities, I kinda feel like that burden is on the players. The GM has enough to worry about as it is, without having to memorize what every character can do. If a GM doesn’t catch something there, it’s on the player for not knowing how to play their character (presuming it’s not someone new to the game and still learning).

pogre said:
Typically, that's what I do with a new set of rules - make a call and move on. After the game, when I send the players a summary I have a section where I explain which calls I got right and which ones I got wrong. I correct things according to my newer understanding of the game and I incorporate those correct rulings going forward.

Umbran · May 31, 2019

uzirath said:
As a player, how important is it to you that the GM gets all the rules right?

Not very.

I mean, really, that's it. I'm usually not playing games in fiddly-bit hardcore mechanics mode. A rules flub here or there, the occasional lookup, these things don't significantly impact my overall play experience.

The Crimson Binome · May 31, 2019

Nagol said:
It quite important to me that the GM knows the rules. The rules act as a shared expectation for how the game world works, what my PC should expect to be able to accomplish and the basic difficulty of actions in the universe. If I base my actions on those expectations and the GM uses a different set to adjudicate, I'm essentially throwing darts while blindfolded.

I couldn't have said it better.

I'm perfectly fine with house rules, as long as they're declared in advance, so I'm not making any of my decisions under false pretenses. Likewise, if I don't know what the rules are supposed to be, then it won't throw off my planning for the GM to be equally ignorant; but I won't intentionally go into a game without having read the book, and I expect the same courtesy from the GM.