Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game

Maxperson · Jun 11, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Curse you for making me give Xp to a Paladin-positive comment.

I am at peace. For now I have seen everything.

lowkey13 · Jun 11, 2019

*Deleted by user*

billd91 · Jun 11, 2019

Riley37 said:
(An earlier post provided the link for John Dodd's statement. Here it is again: http://millionwordman.blogspot.com/2019/06/on-inappropriate-content-in-games-and.html)

Again, if this is news to you: then YOU are the one tossing around accusations - accusations of mob mentality - without basing your accusation on the available information.

As long as we're going to refer back to John Dodd's statement - he also pointed out that 12 of the more than 20 people who contacted him about the incident had misidentified the GM in question. Hence his exhortion to determine and work with reliable information rather than internet rumor. This is why the mob process is risky - it's hard to avoid playing a game of telephone as the story moves around, farther and farther from the parties who were directly involved. And the initial report on twitter was very short on detail as it was.

Sadras · Jun 11, 2019

5ekyu said:
This seems less like devils advocate and more like lampooning or charicature.

Whats missing is the host of other negatives involved with serving time. Whats missing is that the gm is not being told he cannot gm again, just cons deciding they dont want him gming at their events.

This is more akin to a retailer they dont want to hire a known thief to do their money deliveries at any of their stores.

Man, the lengths folks will go for this is amazing.

There are no 'lengths' that I'm going through and stop insinuating nonsense. If you bothered to follow through with my discussion with the poster that replied to me you would have realised I admonished my own thinking.

Riley37 · Jun 11, 2019

Hussar said:
just so I can see your reactions and apparently because some gaming company put me up to it.

I'm familiar with the "see your reactions" part, from the post by one of the players.

What's this about a gaming company putting Rolfe up to a stunt? If that has been discussed here in this thread, then I missed it. Is there evidence that James Desborough was in contact with Rolfe *before* UK Expo 2019? I hope that Nils Hintze wasn't involved! Could you please point me at a source?

Bedrockgames · Jun 11, 2019

5ekyu said:
Uhhh... Huh...

So, the only thing really concrete is that since it was posted mature the players shoulda known better and been expecting sonething like this might be on the menu and just took it in stride, maybe left?

Got it.

No, I am saying glven that it was tagged mature, it makes it a lot more likely this was a case of people going in with differing expectations. It suggests the GM was not trying surprise people with something out of bounds, and more that the GM had a different sense of what was within the boundaries. In terms of the players reactions, I would apply the same level of caution to assessing that as I would to assessing the GM. I wasn't there and so I don't know how things played out in real time. But I can see a case where this is an overreaction (I can also see where it would possibly be an under reaction or an appropriate reaction). But the fact that it was tagged mature, to me is a very important detail.

Bedrockgames · Jun 11, 2019

Riley37 said:
I hereby direct you to post #213, in this thread. You can find post #213 on your own, right? Did you skip past it on the way here? If so, then take your allegations of "rushing to judgement without full information", and apply them directly to yourself.

That post includes a link, and it also quotes a player in that game, recounting how Rolfe told the players that the PCs had been "raped for many many hours. Then he introduced our rapists, who weren’t even part of the story (not that that would have made it better or anything). They then told us they wanted to see us run, that they would give us 10 mins before catching up to us and raping us again and again."

I recommend that you not repeat your assertion that this player, and his fellow players in that game, were "over-reacting", because mods have discouraged blaming the victims.

You could try to argue that this player was lying... but that argument would involve ALSO stipulating that John Dodd was lying, in the blog post where he says "My investigation was swift and through" and "In the two days that followed, I spoke to all but one of the people who played in that game".

(An earlier post provided the link for John Dodd's statement. Here it is again: http://millionwordman.blogspot.com/2019/06/on-inappropriate-content-in-games-and.html)

Again, if this is news to you: then YOU are the one tossing around accusations - accusations of mob mentality - without basing your accusation on the available information.

I will look over this when I get back (I read through it quickly and didn't find the quote you mentioned, but I wasn't doing a detailed read). However, assuming this is the case, it is exactly why I say we shouldn't rush to judgment or make this a matter requiring urgency. If it is the case that we have different accounts of what happened, that makes it more complicated and harder to assess than if all accounts lined up (and accounts can differ for all kinds of reasons, not just because people are lying----people misremember, people miscommunicate, etc).

I mentioned this on another thread where this came up but, this is over 200 posts. That is probably hours of reading for most people. And most of it isn't vital information like the blog post. That is why I am saying you have to give people time to assess. Also, even once you have all the facts, I think it takes a long time to formulate a sound moral judgement and it isn't something I think we should be rushing.

lowkey13 · Jun 11, 2019

*Deleted by user*

5ekyu · Jun 11, 2019

Bedrockgames said:
No, I am saying glven that it was tagged mature, it makes it a lot more likely this was a case of people going in with differing expectations. It suggests the GM was not trying surprise people with something out of bounds, and more that the GM had a different sense of what was within the boundaries. In terms of the players reactions, I would apply the same level of caution to assessing that as I would to assessing the GM. I wasn't there and so I don't know how things played out in real time. But I can see a case where this is an overreaction (I can also see where it would possibly be an under reaction or an appropriate reaction). But the fact that it was tagged mature, to me is a very important detail.

Since I find myself typing then deleting my own responses, cuz I think what I want to say would violate forum policy, I think that's a good sign I should step away from this thread and leave it to you.

Bedrockgames · Jun 11, 2019

Riley37 said:
then I sure hope you never run a games convention.

Please stop with these kinds of assumptions. We can disagree about something, take our time differently with something, and be more or less reluctant to establish firm benchmarks for when we feel it is appropriate to remove people from cons, without that meaning either of us is a bad person or the kind of GM who engages in questionable behavior. For the record, I don't run games like this guy. I don't run games at cons. I think you are bringing a lot of certainty about things to this discussion that you don't have.

Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game

Maxperson

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lowkey13

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billd91

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Sadras

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Bedrockgames

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lowkey13

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5ekyu

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Bedrockgames

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