Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game

Bagpuss · Jun 4, 2019

dragoner said:
Yes, he wrote "In Defense Of Rape", so that his coming to their defense is but damning with faint praise.

Have you actually read that article? I'm just curious as to what part you disagree with?

HJFudge · Jun 4, 2019

Bagpuss said:
So you consider content warnings are a challenge?

Nope, it's very clear there is no commitment to remain in a situation you are uncomfortable with, in fact there is a very clear indication that you should remove yourself from such situations.

How you can read "You are accepting that if you have an issue with anything in the game it’s on you to excuse yourself from the scene or game with minimal disruption to everyone else at the table." as a commitment to remain at the table?

This phenomenon exists outside of gaming.

I've seen it a lot...and not just in the context of mature content. For example, many RPGers will say 'Oh this system is complex...you probably wouldnt understand though cause you just aren't as intelligent as I am' and if this thought becomes kinda mainstream it becomes kind of a challenge to tackle the system. The system could be overly fiddly and bad, but a person will stick with it because they are determined not to seem 'dumb'. They WILL like it and they WILL master it because they view themselves as smart.

Because, and again, this happens all the time, people will judge them for 'just not GETTING it or being smart enough to get it' if they drop it and say "Just too complex for my tastes."

So when someone sees a 'Mature' tag at the table, they go into it because of COURSE they are Mature. They arent a child. They are capable of dealing with mature content. But then...well, something comes up that triggers a memory or an experience and they become deeply uncomfortable. But there is a social stigma and a shame associated with leaving, now. Should there be? No. But there is. The other players will look on someone who walks out on something as 'less' (not all other players, but some will) because they can't handle something 'small' like fade to black/off screen sexual harrassment. Or something 'tame' like violence (non sexual) against women or children.

So they stay. They don't leave. Because they care about what others think. Should they? Maybe not. But they do.

That, I think, is the complaint some have with simply putting something as Mature.

dco · Jun 4, 2019

Those players should not play rpgs with people they don't know.

HJFudge · Jun 4, 2019

dco said:
Those players should not play rpgs with people they don't know.

Pretty bold statement. I feel perhaps someone should be reasonably able to go and play some RPGs with some strangers without being made to feel like trash. Maybe thats just me?

Gradine · Jun 4, 2019

Bagpuss said:
Have you actually read that article? I'm just curious as to what part you disagree with?

More or less all of it. The overall tone and dismissiveness are probably the most odious aspects of it, but even where it's closest to being right (that sexualized violence can be utilized for a truly affecting plot and character element if used carefully and respectfully) he misses the point that it almost always isn't used in those ways, and particularly not in the examples he provides (both in the essay itself and in his larger body of work). He never addresses the key problem that it is often at best used as cheap, tasteless shorthand for character trauma or motivation and at worst as sheer exploitation.

He instead wastes most of his energy railing against a strawman argument that betrays his own lack of actual understanding of what "normalizing rape culture" even means within this context (the ~~best~~ worst part is when he argues that people railing against rape means that rape isn't normalized... in argument essentially telling them they should shut up).

0/10 would not recommend or read again.

MarkB · Jun 5, 2019

dco said:
Those players should not play rpgs with people they don't know.

If we start setting a minimum bar of social maturity for new tabletop RPG players, the hobby won't last long.

Riley37 · Jun 5, 2019

FaerieGodfather said:
At the very least, we need to keep discussing this specific incident until either absolutely everyone knows not to let this guy run public games, or until there is a genuine apology that indicates he understands he did something very wrong, why it was very wrong to do, and why he did it.

But also yes... we need to keep discussing these things until everyone who has not personally experienced them acknowledges the fact that many, if not most, gamers have.

As long as anyone gives serious consideration to essays "In Defense Of Rape", as long as the voters of Missouri elect Congressional representatives who argue in terms of "legitimate rape" and "consensual rapes", as long as a college student's excellence as a competitive swimmer is a factor in whether he gets a heavy or light sentence for sexual assault... in short, as long as there is disagreement on whether rape is really all that bad... then disagreement will appear across society, including in TRPG.

Maybe someday the GM from UK Expo (Kevin Rolfe) will understand that he did something very wrong. Having read his interview after the incident, I'm not holding my breath. I'd bet that twenty years and thirty years from now, he'll still consider himself unfairly misunderstood; and that those who rally to his defense, in this thread, will continue to rally to the defense of his behavioral successors, after the next such incident, and the one after that.

Gradine · Jun 5, 2019

MarkB said:
If we start setting a minimum bar of social maturity for new tabletop RPG players, the hobby won't last long.

Especially when we have people who still consider "implications of gang rape" (or, being more charitable that has been earned at this moment, "drugging, stripping, beating, and ending up covered in their own crap") to be "mature".

dco · Jun 5, 2019

HJFudge said:
Pretty bold statement. I feel perhaps someone should be reasonably able to go and play some RPGs with some strangers without being made to feel like trash. Maybe thats just me?

Personally I'm not finding anything reasonable in all this matter, not sure why a supposed (contradictory reports) rape in a roleplaying game for ages of 18+ escalates to news because someone was distressed and why people instead of talking to the GM prefers twitter. Perhaps I'm very rare, in any case I don't think this will help the hobby and would have preferred if those people only played their safe games in their sanitized environment.

Another thing is that different people can find for example the same thing fun or boring, RPGs as tailored experiences for each player take a lot of work and you can't expect that when playing with random people. If you can end feeling like trash because of something while roleplaying you should know that it is your personal problem, learn about the experience and how to avoid it.

MarkB said:
If we start setting a minimum bar of social maturity for new tabletop RPG players, the hobby won't last long.

The hobby will last less with all the immature and useless drama.

dragoner · Jun 5, 2019

Bagpuss said:
Have you actually read that article? I'm just curious as to what part you disagree with?

The trivialization of rape. Nevertheless it's poorly written tripe, merely filler for the shock value of the title. Now that I said that his "girl friend" will come here posting on his account about how upset he is, and how he might do something stupid.