Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game

Bagpuss said:

W You would think if they were that bothered by it they would have raised it.

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With respect, maybe *you* would think that. But you'd be forgetting the major complexities of human social interaction in so thinking.

End result, though, is a bias against direct confrontation - we all get along by *not* getting in each other's faces the moment we give offense. Instead, we put up with bad behavior in the moment (for a wide variety of entirely valid reasons) and then address the issue afterwards - often via proxies.

The player, at the table, is *NOT* in a position of power in which they can expect an issue to be resolved well in the moment. Waiting until afterwards, not saying anything, and then going to an authority, is quite common and accepted behavior. We are taught this in kindergarten - don't hit back, go to the teacher.

Just for some context: someone tweeted the event description.

I think theres another thread to be pulled on/discussed here that has been brought up in a couple recent posts.

Whilst what this guy did is pretty terrible and his defense of it just does not make sense...

There is such a thing as disproportionate response and we must be careful not to engage too much in that. When it comes down to it, him being unable to GM at conventions anymore is probably what should happen...but trying to ruin other aspects of his life is unwarranted and just being needlessly vindictive.

That said? I think the worse sin here is the fact that he really does not believe what he did was that terrible. I'd be much more likely to advise a bit of mercy had he immediately and fully said 'I made a terrible mistake here, I didn't think, I feel bad I made the other players feel this way and that I did this to them'

Instead of what he has been saying: "People are lying about me, Im the REAL victim here, oh no I uh...I uh of course didnt mean it was Rape how could you think that?"

That shows me he really doesn't get it and probably should be shunned fully in the gaming/convention community

HJFudge said:

I think theres another thread to be pulled on/discussed here that has been brought up in a couple recent posts.

Whilst what this guy did is pretty terrible and his defense of it just does not make sense...

There is such a thing as disproportionate response and we must be careful not to engage too much in that. When it comes down to it, him being unable to GM at conventions anymore is probably what should happen...but trying to ruin other aspects of his life is unwarranted and just being needlessly vindictive.

That said? I think the worse sin here is the fact that he really does not believe what he did was that terrible. I'd be much more likely to advise a bit of mercy had he immediately and fully said 'I made a terrible mistake here, I didn't think, I feel bad I made the other players feel this way and that I did this to them'

Instead of what he has been saying: "People are lying about me, Im the REAL victim here, oh no I uh...I uh of course didnt mean it was Rape how could you think that?"

That shows me he really doesn't get it and probably should be shunned fully in the gaming/convention community

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And even in this case, we can't be entirely certain if this was his initial, genuine reaction, or whether he was steered/coached in that direction by Desborough for his own ends.

Umbran said:

Waiting until afterwards, not saying anything, and then going to an authority, is quite common and accepted behavior. We are taught this in kindergarten - don't hit back, go to the teacher.

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Well at UKGE they have a teacher in every room, which I'm sure if they had spoken to would have raise it with the GM. Seems they didn't do that, but sure going to twitter seems to be the adult way of dealing with problems nowadays.

Roleplaying Room Captains

Each room in the roleplaying area has an easily identifiable room captain whose role is to keep the rooms under observation and take action in the event of any problems. They can be approached by any player or GM who wished to raise an issue.

Bagpuss said:

Well at UKGE they have a teacher in every room, which I'm sure if they had spoken to would have raise it with the GM. Seems they didn't do that.

Roleplaying Room Captains

Each room in the roleplaying area has an easily identifiable room captain whose role is to keep the rooms under observation and take action in the event of any problems. They can be approached by any player or GM who wished to raise an issue.

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Right, because raising a complaint in a crowded room within a few feet of the person you're complaining about wouldn't be socially awkward or uncomfortable at all.

Bagpuss said:

Well at UKGE they have a teacher in every room, which I'm sure if they had spoken to would have raise it with the GM. Seems they didn't do that, but sure going to twitter seems to be the adult way of dealing with problems nowadays.

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Twitter is, conveniently, a place to share stories.

Also at least one of the individuals did directly complain to UKGE.

Not that it actually matters.

HJFudge said:

There is such a thing as disproportionate response and we must be careful not to engage too much in that. When it comes down to it, him being unable to GM at conventions anymore is probably what should happen...but trying to ruin other aspects of his life is unwarranted and just being needlessly vindictive.

That said? I think the worse sin here is the fact that he really does not believe what he did was that terrible. I'd be much more likely to advise a bit of mercy had he immediately and fully said 'I made a terrible mistake here, I didn't think, I feel bad I made the other players feel this way and that I did this to them'

Instead of what he has been saying: "People are lying about me, Im the REAL victim here, oh no I uh...I uh of course didnt mean it was Rape how could you think that?"

That shows me he really doesn't get it and probably should be shunned fully in the gaming/convention community

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In the highly theoretical event that I was handling registration for a convention, and I noticed that one of the registrants was Kevin Wolfe, I'd ask other people with con management experience for advice.

In the absence of advice, off the cuff, I'd propose this response: a communication along the lines of "We have received and processed your registration. We are aware of your history. We advise you to closely read our Community Standards of Behavior (link goes here). Your welcome at GameCon IX is conditional: you may not run any games at our event, not even in the Open Gaming Room. What you do in your hotel room is beyond our authority, but even so, we encourage you to err on the side of caution and good taste."

I suppose the next step is noting which events he wants to join as a player, and either warn the GMs of those events, or give those GMs a veto on whether he plays at their tables? I dunno. I don't have experience running gaming conventions.

This falls short of full shunning, banning and ostracism. It leaves the con open to risk, if he behaves badly and another participant blames the con for accepting his registration. It's not as simple as refusing his registration.

Derek Black turned away from Stormfront. Megan Phelps left Westboro Baptist. Maybe Kevin Wolfe can grow up. I want to leave SOME room for the possibility.

(Yes, I have judgmental opinions regarding Stormfront and Westboro. I do not expect all other EN World participants to share those opinions, but I also make no apologies for holding them.)

Bagpuss said:

/snip
I think the UKGE acted out of necessary in the current climate.
/snip

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Which climate would that be? The one where it's no longer considered acceptable to use your position of authority to inflict mental harm on others and they should just "man up" and take it? Or the "current climate" that feels that people should be held accountable for inflicting mental harm on others?

What, exactly, is this "current climate" you are referring to?

Hussar said:

Which climate would that be? The one where it's no longer considered acceptable to use your position of authority to inflict mental harm on others and they should just "man up" and take it?

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The climate where everything is dealt with under a public microscope rather than, just between the people involved (I include UKGE as part of the people involved, just for clarity). Where the press are apt to creating sensational stories out of hearsay and rumour rather than actually talking to the people involved. Where people call for someone to end up on the sex offenders register for what was at something happening in a fictional space (admittedly clearly fringe elements of the community).