Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game - Page 34
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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    I think you have a problem in that you are discussing what you see as a general issue, in a thread about an incident that does not support your points well at all.

    Find a documented incident where public shaming had a major impact on a GM, and it turns out the public was really wrong, and you might have something. But here, what you have are hypothetical, things you *fear* can happen, but for which we don't have evidence at hand. Without some validation that the fears are reality, what you have is, in effect, a slippery slope argument, and we all know the rhetorical weaknesses of that.
    Obviously I disagree. I think we are seeing the whole hobby focus on this one individual over one incident and many are calling for him to be banned from other cobs, for him to be pushed out of the hobby, and for reforms like all cons using X cards as a result of all this. I think it is fair to question whether this is moving in a good direction, whether this response is appropriate and whether it is going to cause undo hardship on the GM in question. Everyone is so confident in the moral judgment of the community and of the ability of this kind of online reaction to produce good results. I am not. Again I think there is good reason to be cautious here. Personally I am pretty uncomfortable with the reaction. And like I said, I have been pretty uncomfortable with how the hobby has become more moblike online.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedrockgames View Post
    Fair enough, I missed the quotations (though in fairness I am not writing a news article ). But, and not picking on Danny here because I find him to be one of the most reasonable posters in these discussions, but here is one example that to me seems to be defending mob mentality (it was in response to a poster arguing that public shaming is a problem):

    There have definitely been defenses of shunning and shaming, and using the power of social media to do so here I think. And I do think it isn't inaccurate to call this reaction an internet mob reaction. It is occurring on threads like this, facebook, all over twitter, on blogs and youtube channels. We have painted a picture of this person based on one session, which could have been anything from a misjudgment on his part, to blatantly offensive GMing, to an over-reaction on the part of the players. I honestly have a very hard time assessing it not having been there myself, because this is a case where how it was delivered and the tone would have mattered a great deal. Also the vibe of the tables would have mattered too.
    This person is an adult. Unless he’s been under a rock for the past decade, he probably is aware of how social norms have changed. Either deliberately or by gross misjudgment, he chose a path that seems to have caused emotional distress. Consequently, either way, his judgement is suspect, and that isn’t a desirable quality in someone running an event at a convention.

    If you want an analogous situation, look at Tailhook.

    Less serious: check out the career of increasingly embattled MLB umpire, Angel Hernandez.

    ...he is being eliminated from the hobby...
    No, he is being banned from participating in one aspect of the hobby, namely running events at conventions. He’s still able to play privately...if any will have him.

    If you think that he might not have too many willing to play with him, knowing of these events, you may be correct. But that’s on him. Actions have consequences. He chose to be shocking; others can choose not to associate with him.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey13 View Post
    The only reason it doesn't happen is because the Venn Diagram of Awesome Comments that Deserve XP and Commenters that Play Paladins and Love Them resembles two balls, one bobbing the Atlantic Ocean, and one bobbing in the Pacific.
    This is the first time I've ever been publicly compared to the Panama Canal.

    In private, well... that was private.

    Meanwhile, if BRG can skim post #213, without seeing anything about rape, then he's got a blind spot. I can bring him water, but I can't make him drink. I also can't persuade anyone that the Earth is round, if they're sufficiently determined to believe otherwise.

    Meh. We're down to the usual regulars, both on the "Boys will be Boys" side and on the other side.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedrockgames View Post
    Obviously I disagree. I think we are seeing the whole hobby focus on this one individual
    "...the whole hobby..."?

    Where are you getting the idea that anything other than a few vocal people here and on social media even give a fetid dingo's kidney about this - or are even aware of it?

    I mean that sincerely - where are you getting the impression that any significant portion of "the whole hobby" is focused on something other than their own lives and gaming sessions? Remember that we are talking about literally *millions* of people. Where are you seeing millions of people focusing on this?

    At this point I will not accept hyperbole for effect as an argument. You want to start talking about supposedly real dangers, you need to speak for real, not in hyperbole, or we won't get anywhere.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley37 View Post

    I have a speculative answer to that question, and it's not pretty. It's also been raised, as a general point rather than as a specific accusation against BRG, earlier in this thread.



    .
    i don’t know you are suggesting here. But I have a sense. I think this kind of attitude is unfortunately more common in these discussions today. But I knew it was possible the moment I stated an unpopular point of view. Promise I am not coming from a bad place. I just take a different view of things than you.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    "...the whole hobby..."?

    Where are you getting the idea that anything other than a few vocal people here and on social media even give a fetid dingo's kidney about this - or are even aware of it?

    I mean that sincerely - where are you getting the impression that any significant portion of "the whole hobby" is focused on something other than their own lives and gaming sessions? Remember that we are talking about literally *millions* of people. Where are you seeing millions of people focusing on this?

    At this point I will not accept hyperbole for effect as an argument. You want to start talking about supposedly real dangers, you need to speak for real, not in hyperbole, or we won't get anywhere.
    It is a subjective sense of course but this topic is getting a lot of discussion on social media among gamers (including this rsther long thread). Any time this sort of thing occurs it tends to become a big topic of discussion. I don’t think ‘all gamers’ care about it. But a very vocal portion of the hobby devoted considerable attention to this stuff it seems

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedrockgames View Post
    It is a subjective sense of course but this topic is getting a lot of discussion on social media among gamers (including this rsther long thread). Any time this sort of thing occurs it tends to become a big topic of discussion. I don’t think ‘all gamers’ care about it. But a very vocal portion of the hobby devoted considerable attention to this stuff it seems
    You've yet to make a convincing argument for why we ought to consider that a bad thing.
    XP Dannyalcatraz, lowkey13, Otherworldly gave XP for this post

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedrockgames View Post
    It is a subjective sense of course but this topic is getting a lot of discussion on social media among gamers (including this rsther long thread). Any time this sort of thing occurs it tends to become a big topic of discussion. I don’t think ‘all gamers’ care about it. But a very vocal portion of the hobby devoted considerable attention to this stuff it seems
    Arguably, that's because there is a very toxic subset within our community that pops up and feels the need to defend this type of thing.

    Sometimes it is overt defense:

    "Can't those women take a JOKE. Jeez."


    Sometimes it is "the sky is falling" defense:

    "Won't someone please think of the menfolk? The poor, oppressed, menfolk?"



    Sometimes it is obvious sealioning:

    "Why can't we just have a nice conversation about how little I know, and what evidence there really is?"


    Sometimes it is a call to debate the "real issues"-

    "Sure, I know that this might be bad, but what about FREE SPEECH? Isn't that what really matters?



    Look, I hate that so many issues, from casting in movies I want to see, to conventions, to just being nice to each other ... gets caught up in issues.

    But do you know what? This isn't the fault of people that are marginalized. I can remember a time when TTRPGs were a welcoming space for miscreants like me, and people that had been cast out from the so-called mainstream of society.


    Maybe the considerable attention is only because it is unfortunately necessary, when this comes up, to keep repeating such things as, "Yes, running rape scenarios at gaming conventions is a bad idea." If there was the universal agreement that this is exactly how PEOPLE SHOULD NATURALLY RESPOND TO THIS, then there wouldn't be much debate.


    So yeah, I blame a very vocal portion of the hobby. Is it the same vocal portion that you are blaming?
    Last edited by lowkey13; Tuesday, 11th June, 2019 at 06:25 PM.
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  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley37 View Post
    This is the first time I've ever been publicly compared to the Panama Canal.
    A man, a plan, a canal, Palindrome.

    .... darn it. Missing something. What should I do?

    Borrow, or rob?
    Laugh Dannyalcatraz laughed with this post

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey13 View Post
    A man, a plan, a canal, Palindrome.

    .... darn it. Missing something. What should I do?

    Borrow, or rob?
    Might as well Jump!



    Wait, that's not quite right.
    Laugh lowkey13 laughed with this post

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