D&D 5E The highest sustained DPR build I could make

Swashbuckler with a couple feats should be getting SA twice per round several times a combat, if not every round. I may have missed it, but I didn’t see any recognition of that in the math.

Also, I don’t think crits apply to the booming blade secondary damage.

doctorbadwolf said:

My issue with that is, you get one die. I don't feel like Martial Adept is ever really worth it.

Click to expand...

Per short rest. I reckon it sees use as often as Mage Slayer. Multiclassing to Battlemaster is better though.

UngeheuerLich said:

What I think is that although the calculations are nice and such, those builds are too complicated for not much gain.

You can easily go straight hexblade warlock, use shadow blade, thirsting blade and eldritch smite and use devil sight. You use charisma for everything and have level 6 spells and 3 ASIs. I will make some calculations soon. Edit: shadow blade and darkness both need concentration though. So I have to think about some things.

Click to expand...

Even a straight hexblade is really, really good. I played in a game where the DM used the flanking=advantage rule, so it was obviously easy mode, but Shadow of Moil is also easy mode advantage twice per short rest (3 times at level 11). Elven Accuracy + Great Weapon Master + Lifedrinker is giving you near Barbarian levels of offense, Shadow of Moil is great defense, and you still have an excellent ranged attack and utility spells to fall back on if melee isn't feasible. My hexblade has been my favorite 5e character.

TwoSix said:

Yea, the crit rate was based on the assumption of having Hexblade Curse up and having crit be on 19-20. 1-(18/20)^3 = 27.1%. I played a hexblade with elven accuracy for a fair stretch, so I got real familiar with the tri-advantage math.

I generally assume about a 55-60% base chance hit rate, which would work out to be about 91%-93% hit rate with tri-vantage. Rounding to 90% covers a pretty wide attack vs AC range, so it's my default assumption for Elven Accuracy calculations if I don't want to do spreadsheets.

Click to expand...

Righto, then! Carry on.

Ovinomancer said:

Righto, then! Carry on.

Click to expand...

I shall keep calm and do so.

UngeheuerLich said:

What I think is that although the calculations are nice and such, those builds are too complicated for not much gain.

Click to expand...

And they generally ignore the opportunity costs of doing so (e.g., higher level abilities you don't get when multiclassing).

I mean, their entire focus is on dpr or nova or whatever, so I guess it achieves its goal. But how do you quantify the value of, say, giving everybody within 30' a +5 on all saving throws, which you can easily miss out on when you start MCing your Paladin?

Elfcrusher said:

And they generally ignore the opportunity costs of doing so (e.g., higher level abilities you don't get when multiclassing).

I mean, their entire focus is on dpr or nova or whatever, so I guess it achieves its goal. But how do you quantify the value of, say, giving everybody within 30' a +5 on all saving throws, which you can easily miss out on when you start MCing your Paladin?

Click to expand...

You can't quantify it. That's why "best damage build" and "strongest character" aren't synonymous. It's the same reason the basketball player with the highest scoring average or the baseball player with the highest OPS doesn't usually win MVP. There's more aspects than offense.

But, just like in basketball and baseball, offense is easier to quantify than defense, so we end up talking about it more.

doctorbadwolf said:

Swashbuckler with a couple feats should be getting SA twice per round several times a combat, if not every round. I may have missed it, but I didn’t see any recognition of that in the math.

Also, I don’t think crits apply to the booming blade secondary damage.

Click to expand...

The PHB says that sneak attack only works once per turn, so I'm not sure what you mean. Unless you are saying that the swashbuckler is using sneak attack on opportunity attacks as well.

Elfcrusher said:

And they generally ignore the opportunity costs of doing so (e.g., higher level abilities you don't get when multiclassing).

I mean, their entire focus is on dpr or nova or whatever, so I guess it achieves its goal. But how do you quantify the value of, say, giving everybody within 30' a +5 on all saving throws, which you can easily miss out on when you start MCing your Paladin?

Click to expand...

Yes, I have ignored the many sacrifices that go into making a character like this, such as ASI's and higher level features.

TwoSix said:

You can't quantify it. That's why "best damage build" and "strongest character" aren't synonymous. It's the same reason the basketball player with the highest scoring average or the baseball player with the highest OPS doesn't usually win MVP. There's more aspects than offense.

But, just like in basketball and baseball, offense is easier to quantify than defense, so we end up talking about it more.

Click to expand...

I agree with your line about offense, that's interesting and I hadn't thought about it in that way before. But yes, my intentions were certainly not to make the "best damage build," and I don't think I wrote that anywhere. I mostly just wanted to see what in game effects could you stack together to get the most damage at level 12. In any case, I think the distinction that this character is not the "best damage build" is important, but I wouldn't even say it's the "strongest character" either. It just has a lot of damage, and a lot of setup.

Paul Farquhar said:

Per short rest. I reckon it sees use as often as Mage Slayer. Multiclassing to Battlemaster is better though.

Click to expand...

I even took Martial Adept for my battlemaster. The extra die was nice, made me much more inclined to recklessly used the other ones rather than cautiously saving them for when they were needed, and the versatility of two more maneuvers was sweet.

Paul Farquhar said:

Per short rest. I reckon it sees use as often as Mage Slayer. Multiclassing to Battlemaster is better though.

Click to expand...

I definately get to bop a baddie for casting next to me more than 1/short rest. Probably average of 1/encounter, when the adventure has a lot of spellcasters. Still a couple times per rest with light spellcasters, bc the caster can’t get away from me most of the time, and they have to either cast and pay or not cast and let their team get wrecked. Being a Gnome Swashbuckler with Mage Slayer really is a great caster-Bane build.

But, YMMV. We tend to add casting to critters, as well, and even a melee guy with melee cantrips gets an OA before they realize I can do that. And they can only use escape spells so many times. And if they use shield then that’s just as good for my team, since they are burning even more of their spells ineffectually.

Cadmius Clairmonte said:

The PHB says that sneak attack only works once per turn, so I'm not sure what you mean. Unless you are saying that the swashbuckler is using sneak attack on opportunity attacks as well.

Click to expand...

Yep. Rogues get Sneak Attack 1 per turn, not 1 per round. So, any Attack you make on another creature’s turn qualifies as long as it meets the normal SA requirements. Since Swashbucklers are very good at being exactly where they want to be, it’s usually easy to be within 5 feet of a caster when they take their turn. So, unless they have misty step, they either have to move and cast, cast without moving, or disengage and move. Two of those get you an opportunity Attack, the other burns their action on the disengage.

I like to also pick up Sentinel with this build, providing a whole other line of opportunity Attack...opportunities.

If they cast, move away w/o disengage or teleport, or attack an ally within 5 ft of me, I get that sweet opportunity Attack.

Now if only I could guarantee advantage on those attacks!