D&D 5E The highest sustained DPR build I could make

doctorbadwolf said:

I definately get to bop a baddie for casting next to me more than 1/short rest. Probably average of 1/encounter, when the adventure has a lot of spellcasters.

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Paul Farquhar said:

Then enemy casters are much much more common in your games than in mine (And when they do show up they usually have a wall of minions keeping them out of melee range).

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Paul Farquhar said:

Then enemy casters are much much more common in your games than in mine (And when they do show up they usually have a wall of minions keeping them out of melee range).

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Cadmius Clairmonte said:

This will probably be a long post, hopefully I can condense it and just get to the important parts though. A couple things to mention first though:

• Personally, I am not interested in dpr builds at level 20. That's why this character is level 12. I feel like the game is less about damage at level 20, and it's just a less often played tier of the game.
• This character does not utilize feats to increase damage output, but it goes without saying that those are very valid options.
• When considering the damage output of this character, none of the stats really matter except the dexterity.
• This character is intended to scale harder than other classes, and benefit more from magical effects like haste and magical weapons.

Onto the build.

Level 12 Monklock - Proficiency +4
7 Kensei Monk, 5 Hexblade Warlock Multiclass
| 10 STR | 20 DEX | 10 CON | 10 INT | 20 WIS | 10 CHA | 7 Ki Points | 2 Spell Slots |
Invocations: Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon, Sign of Ill Omen​

The biggest sources of damage for this build are: Multiattack, Flurry of blows, Hex, Thirsting Blade, High Dex Mod, and surprisingly the proficiency bonus. As far as my thought process when building this character, I really wanted to incorporate the hex spell. It's a classic for dealing damage. This character focuses on simply having more attacks than anything else though, because more landed attacks is more guaranteed damage. With hex and baleful curse places on the same target, every landed attack is another dex bonus, proficiency bonus, and 1d6 necrotic damage on top of the attack itself. I feel like this damage is significant, and can scale much harder than Rogue's sneak attack. I will compare this build to rogue a lot throughout this. But Rogues don't really benefit greatly at level 12 by having more attacks. Multiple attacks for rogues, or having two weapons, is really more about ensuring sneak attack lands. A level 12 rogue with two weapon fighting has two attacks, but the difference in damage between one attack landing and both attacks landing is the difference of 1d8 weapon +5 dex of damage.

So what kind of damage outputs can this class output?
To start, we will have rapier as a kensei weapon and pact of the blade weapon in the mainhand, and a free offhand. With every attack action, Monklock gets 2 rapier attacks, and an extra that can be either another weapon attack or an unarmed strike. The only reason this distinction matters is with the kensei's Agile Parry feature for +2 ac. Flurry of blows for 1 ki point gives 2 unarmed strikes as a bonus action. Hex deals 1d6 necrotic for every landed attack. Baleful Curse adds proficiency bonus to damage rolls. For now, I am assuming this only applies to each attack, not each source of damage. I am doing this because I don't think it would add to the attack landed, as well as the hex damage, but I could be wrong. Finally, since the rapier is a +1 pact weapon, each rapier hit does an extra point of damage.

(Assuming Every Attack Hits)
So far this damage in terms of number and dice looks like this:

​

Attack Action	Flurry of Blows	Hex	Dex Mod	Proficiency	Pact Weapon
3d8 M Slash	+2d6 M Bludg.	+5d6 Necrotic	+25 M Slash/Bludg.	+20	+3

A big part of the damage is simply the amount of times that the dex mod and proficiency bonuses are added to the damage. That's a minimum of 58 damage from all of these sources. Minimum. I believe the average would come out to 85 damage. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

In comparison:
Level 12 Rogue |2 Rapiers | +5 Dex | Sneak Attack | (Don't add an extra dex mod to the crit damage, just double sneak attack and an extra d8)

​

Assassin Autocrit	3d8	+12d6	+10	Minimum 25 damage	Average 65 damage
No autocrit	2d8	+6d6	+10	Minimum 18 damage	Average 40 damage

Now, there is a noticeable difference in these damage outputs, but certainly not utterly absurd in my opinion. But I mentioned earlier that this class is designed to scal harder than other classes with certain damage boosts applied to them. Let's start with haste. What we're interested is the extra attack action. This does not boost the level 12 Rogues damage by much, it just gives another swing of a rapier for 1d8+5, it doesn't let them proc sneak attack any more often. But if you remember from before, each attack action gives the Monklock 3 more attacks. 1 default, another from thirsting blade, and another from extra attack. It looks like this:

Monklock​

Action	Haste	Flurry of Blows	Hex	Dex	Proficiency	Pact Weapon	Minimum	Average
3d8	+3d8	+2d6	+8d6	+40	+32	+6	94	111

Rogue​

	Action	Haste	Sneak Attack	Dex	Minimum	Average
Assassin	3d8	+1d8	+12d6	+15	31	75
No Crit	2d8	+1d8	+6d6	+15	24	47

As you can see, the haste action just lets Monklock absolutely outpace the Rogue in terms of damage. Now let's look at this Monklock with a Flametongue. Just to be nice, we will give one to the rogue as well. Hopefully the autocrit bring it back to comparable with Monklock.

Monklock with Flametongue and Haste
​

Action	Haste	Flurry of Blows	Hex	Flametongue	Dex	Proficiency	Pact Weapon	Minimum	Average
3d8	+3d8	+2d6	+8d6	+12d6	+40	+32	+6	106	172

Rogue with Flametongue and Haste
​

	Action	Haste	Sneak Attack	Flametongue	Dex	Minimum	Average
Assassin	3d8	+1d8	+12d6	+8d6	+15	39	103
No Crit	2d8	+1d8	+6d6	+6d6	+15	30	70

That's basically it, I really just wanted to showcase the damage breakdowns. There are a few things to consider as well. My rationale is for haste is that DnD is usually a game about an adventuring party, therefore it's not usual for at least one party to know haste and cast it on Monklock. Of course, Monklock is not god. Obvious weaknesses are enemies that have darkness at will, dispel magic at will, or counterspell. Enemies with high ac can be a bit annoying, because missing means less damage, but faerie fire could potentially make up for this.

I admit, having all 8 attacks land is not really a good way to measure the average damage. That's more for the possible damage. However, I can see that measuring the damage assuming around 5-6 of the attacks landing might be a better average. This also does not take into account any utility or tankiness of the Monklock vs other characters.

A few last things I want to say about Assassin vs Monklock: The assassin does lots of damage, this is true. However, they deal a lot of damage once. I don't think it's likely that an assassin will find more than one opportunity to get an autocrit off on a surprised enemy once an all out fight breaks out against the bbeg or something. Monk can do this as long as they have flurry of blows, which at this level is 7 times. That's a lot of times. Also, if Monklock actually manages to land bestow curse for the 1d8, that could be even more damage.

Some other thoughts: Crits are probably more effective, or add more damage, to rogues. A single attack critting for monk adds more but not as much as rogue. Assassins may find it harder to find more sneak attacks in battle since they need advantage or a nearby ally. As compared to a swashbuckler at least, who gets it as long as they are in a duel essentially.

Okay that is actually the end of the post. Let me know what you think: Of Monklock, of damage, of multiclassing martial classes in 5e, balance, etc. Let me know if I missed or overlooked anything, or have incorrect mins/averages. I certainly hope not - I really don't want to redo them. Also, I would appreciate advice on formatting posts. This is my first one on a forum, so I tried to make it as digestible as possible. So yea, what do you guys think?

Click to expand...

Cadmius Clairmonte said:

This will probably be a long post, hopefully I can condense it and just get to the important parts though. A couple things to mention first though:

• Personally, I am not interested in dpr builds at level 20. That's why this character is level 12. I feel like the game is less about damage at level 20, and it's just a less often played tier of the game.
• This character does not utilize feats to increase damage output, but it goes without saying that those are very valid options.
• When considering the damage output of this character, none of the stats really matter except the dexterity.
• This character is intended to scale harder than other classes, and benefit more from magical effects like haste and magical weapons.

Onto the build.

Level 12 Monklock - Proficiency +4
7 Kensei Monk, 5 Hexblade Warlock Multiclass
| 10 STR | 20 DEX | 10 CON | 10 INT | 20 WIS | 10 CHA | 7 Ki Points | 2 Spell Slots |
Invocations: Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon, Sign of Ill Omen​

The biggest sources of damage for this build are: Multiattack, Flurry of blows, Hex, Thirsting Blade, High Dex Mod, and surprisingly the proficiency bonus. As far as my thought process when building this character, I really wanted to incorporate the hex spell. It's a classic for dealing damage. This character focuses on simply having more attacks than anything else though, because more landed attacks is more guaranteed damage. With hex and baleful curse places on the same target, every landed attack is another dex bonus, proficiency bonus, and 1d6 necrotic damage on top of the attack itself. I feel like this damage is significant, and can scale much harder than Rogue's sneak attack. I will compare this build to rogue a lot throughout this. But Rogues don't really benefit greatly at level 12 by having more attacks. Multiple attacks for rogues, or having two weapons, is really more about ensuring sneak attack lands. A level 12 rogue with two weapon fighting has two attacks, but the difference in damage between one attack landing and both attacks landing is the difference of 1d8 weapon +5 dex of damage.

So what kind of damage outputs can this class output?
To start, we will have rapier as a kensei weapon and pact of the blade weapon in the mainhand, and a free offhand. With every attack action, Monklock gets 2 rapier attacks, and an extra that can be either another weapon attack or an unarmed strike. The only reason this distinction matters is with the kensei's Agile Parry feature for +2 ac. Flurry of blows for 1 ki point gives 2 unarmed strikes as a bonus action. Hex deals 1d6 necrotic for every landed attack. Baleful Curse adds proficiency bonus to damage rolls. For now, I am assuming this only applies to each attack, not each source of damage. I am doing this because I don't think it would add to the attack landed, as well as the hex damage, but I could be wrong. Finally, since the rapier is a +1 pact weapon, each rapier hit does an extra point of damage.

(Assuming Every Attack Hits)
So far this damage in terms of number and dice looks like this:

​

Attack Action	Flurry of Blows	Hex	Dex Mod	Proficiency	Pact Weapon
3d8 M Slash	+2d6 M Bludg.	+5d6 Necrotic	+25 M Slash/Bludg.	+20	+3

A big part of the damage is simply the amount of times that the dex mod and proficiency bonuses are added to the damage. That's a minimum of 58 damage from all of these sources. Minimum. I believe the average would come out to 85 damage. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

In comparison:
Level 12 Rogue |2 Rapiers | +5 Dex | Sneak Attack | (Don't add an extra dex mod to the crit damage, just double sneak attack and an extra d8)

​

Assassin Autocrit	3d8	+12d6	+10	Minimum 25 damage	Average 65 damage
No autocrit	2d8	+6d6	+10	Minimum 18 damage	Average 40 damage

Now, there is a noticeable difference in these damage outputs, but certainly not utterly absurd in my opinion. But I mentioned earlier that this class is designed to scal harder than other classes with certain damage boosts applied to them. Let's start with haste. What we're interested is the extra attack action. This does not boost the level 12 Rogues damage by much, it just gives another swing of a rapier for 1d8+5, it doesn't let them proc sneak attack any more often. But if you remember from before, each attack action gives the Monklock 3 more attacks. 1 default, another from thirsting blade, and another from extra attack. It looks like this:

Monklock​

Action	Haste	Flurry of Blows	Hex	Dex	Proficiency	Pact Weapon	Minimum	Average
3d8	+3d8	+2d6	+8d6	+40	+32	+6	94	111

Rogue​

	Action	Haste	Sneak Attack	Dex	Minimum	Average
Assassin	3d8	+1d8	+12d6	+15	31	75
No Crit	2d8	+1d8	+6d6	+15	24	47

As you can see, the haste action just lets Monklock absolutely outpace the Rogue in terms of damage. Now let's look at this Monklock with a Flametongue. Just to be nice, we will give one to the rogue as well. Hopefully the autocrit bring it back to comparable with Monklock.

Monklock with Flametongue and Haste
​

Action	Haste	Flurry of Blows	Hex	Flametongue	Dex	Proficiency	Pact Weapon	Minimum	Average
3d8	+3d8	+2d6	+8d6	+12d6	+40	+32	+6	106	172

Rogue with Flametongue and Haste
​

	Action	Haste	Sneak Attack	Flametongue	Dex	Minimum	Average
Assassin	3d8	+1d8	+12d6	+8d6	+15	39	103
No Crit	2d8	+1d8	+6d6	+6d6	+15	30	70

That's basically it, I really just wanted to showcase the damage breakdowns. There are a few things to consider as well. My rationale is for haste is that DnD is usually a game about an adventuring party, therefore it's not usual for at least one party to know haste and cast it on Monklock. Of course, Monklock is not god. Obvious weaknesses are enemies that have darkness at will, dispel magic at will, or counterspell. Enemies with high ac can be a bit annoying, because missing means less damage, but faerie fire could potentially make up for this.

I admit, having all 8 attacks land is not really a good way to measure the average damage. That's more for the possible damage. However, I can see that measuring the damage assuming around 5-6 of the attacks landing might be a better average. This also does not take into account any utility or tankiness of the Monklock vs other characters.

A few last things I want to say about Assassin vs Monklock: The assassin does lots of damage, this is true. However, they deal a lot of damage once. I don't think it's likely that an assassin will find more than one opportunity to get an autocrit off on a surprised enemy once an all out fight breaks out against the bbeg or something. Monk can do this as long as they have flurry of blows, which at this level is 7 times. That's a lot of times. Also, if Monklock actually manages to land bestow curse for the 1d8, that could be even more damage.

Some other thoughts: Crits are probably more effective, or add more damage, to rogues. A single attack critting for monk adds more but not as much as rogue. Assassins may find it harder to find more sneak attacks in battle since they need advantage or a nearby ally. As compared to a swashbuckler at least, who gets it as long as they are in a duel essentially.

Okay that is actually the end of the post. Let me know what you think: Of Monklock, of damage, of multiclassing martial classes in 5e, balance, etc. Let me know if I missed or overlooked anything, or have incorrect mins/averages. I certainly hope not - I really don't want to redo them. Also, I would appreciate advice on formatting posts. This is my first one on a forum, so I tried to make it as digestible as possible. So yea, what do you guys think?

Click to expand...

Cadmius Clairmonte said:

Anyway, let me know what you guys think. I think it's fun to talk about builds and stuff, it's always interesting to come up with new ideas.

Click to expand...