Let's Talk About THAC0 - Page 5
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dausuul View Post
    In my experience, THAC0 doesn't have a reputation at all, if by "reputation" you mean "opinion held by people without direct knowledge." People either know what THAC0 is because they played 2E, or they didn't play 2E and have never heard of it.
    Thats not my experience.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Mathematically, people do addition faster than subtraction. d20+bonus >= target is super quick at the table. The addition is quick, the comparison to target is quick. Subtraction or table lookup is slower.

    Also, d20+bonus >= target is quite intuitively obvious. Especially among new players the chance of success (knowing bonus and target) is clearer without working it out.

    THACO doesn't seem to bring any advantages to offset either of these, much less both.
    Let's see-

    Scenario A:

    So, um, let's look at the d20+Bonus >= target AC. You know, the, um, DuhtwentyBuhTAC! So, what's your DuhtwentyBuhTAC* look like?


    Scenario B:

    THAC0, baby, YEAH!


    Game.

    Set.

    Match.

    THAC0.



    *In fairness, I might start saying this. DutwentybuhTAC has a nice ring to it, even if it's no THAC0. I mean .... I can just see my new, elite, super-bowl winning character.
    You know, Joe Thac0.
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  3. #43
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    It's not an "argument" that addition is easier than subtraction. It's a proven fact.

    Also, it's not an "argument" that consistency makes it easier for people to learn (higher numbers always better). That's also a proven fact.

    THAC0 fails both and belongs in the dustbin of history.
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  4. #44
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    I proclaim THAC20 for 6E

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    I hope another dozen people explain to me that addition is easier than subtraction!
    Be careful what you wish for...

    Nevertheless, I still maintain my position that THAC0 is not as complex as its reputation would lead you to believe, whether or not addition is easier than subtraction.
    Are you sure the reputation is "more complex", and not just "more confusing"?

    But, note that in your explanation, you left out a step:

    In 3E-5E, you roll d20 and add bonuses in order to beat the target's AC.

    In 1E-2E, you roll d20 and add bonuses (Strength, magic, etc) in order to beat THAC0 minus AC.

    So, in 3E-5E, you do one mathematical operation, on the roll total. In 1E-2E you generally do two - one on the die, one on the target number. And that "minus AC" in general also included the fact that the AC could be a negative number.

    Whether you decide that this is not "as complex as its reputation". It does literally require more operations.
    Last edited by Umbran; Thursday, 6th June, 2019 at 09:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Randall View Post
    It's not an "argument" that addition is easier than subtraction. It's a proven fact.

    Also, it's not an "argument" that consistency makes it easier for people to learn (higher numbers always better). That's also a proven fact.

    THAC0 fails both and belongs in the dustbin of history.
    For forty-three years of my conscious life I have remained a revolutionist; for forty-two of them I have fought under the banner of THAC0. If I had to begin all over again I would of course try to avoid this or that mistake, but the main course of my life would remain unchanged.

    I shall die an AD&D revolutionist, a THAC0ist, a dialectical Gygaxian, and, consequently, an irreconcilable grognard.

    My faith in the tablist future of Dungeons and Dragons and in constancy of THAC0 is not less ardent, indeed it is firmer today, than it was in the days of my youth.
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  7. #47
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    Let's Talk About THAC0

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post

    Whether you decide that this is not "as complex as its reputation". It does literally require more operations.
    And yet I stand by my assertion. It is not as complex (or, indeed, confusing) as its reputation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey13 View Post
    For forty-three years of my conscious life I have remained a revolutionist; for forty-two of them I have fought under the banner of THAC0. If I had to begin all over again I would of course try to avoid this or that mistake, but the main course of my life would remain unchanged.

    I shall die an AD&D revolutionist, a THAC0ist, a dialectical Gygaxian, and, consequently, an irreconcilable grognard.

    My faith in the tablist future of Dungeons and Dragons and in constancy of THAC0 is not less ardent, indeed it is firmer today, than it was in the days of my youth.
    That's nice. Do you still use a rotary-dial phone, too? Drive a car that uses leaded gasoline? Listen to a lot of The Captain and Tennille?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    Listen to a lot of The Captain and Tennille?
    Puh-leeze.

    Captain and Tennille?

    You're drowning in the past, Umbran. But I've got your life vest right here: it's called yacht rock, and it's gonna be around forever.

    That's right. McDonald. Loggins. Maybe a little of the Steely Dan, if you need to cut your smooth music with some acerbic commentary.

    Smooth grooves- accept no substitute.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    And yet I stand by my assertion. It is not as complex (or, indeed, confusing) as its reputation.
    Standing by un-measurable assertions is easy. It still looks like standing by your 1974 Ford Pinto* as a great car.




    *Which had a reputation for blowing up if it got rear-ended

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