4E The Intelligent Fighter , Thibault's Circle.
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  1. #1
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    The Intelligent Fighter , Thibault's Circle.

    5e is a million miles from doing anything like this... 4e tends to shunt smart fighter to being a Warlord or maybe a reflavored Swordmage (which is very much still an option) but i think there is a case for making it functional for a Intelligent Fighter/Defender.

    In 4e out of the box you can build a Str / Wizdom / Int Fighter ... the int is important for keeping light ac/reflex defenses up but really wouldn't accomplish much else. Can we encourage it more can we make fast thinking and quick battlefield analysis the initiative instead of perception that the wary fighter does? and while that would be an enabler not sure it relates to the style.

    Thibault's 'magic circle was a very effective style in terms of Defense

    "What made the Spanish Style of fencing so respected if not feared by contemporaries of that period, was it the attitude, the demeanor of the Spaniard, the precision of the attacks and parries, or was there something more?Consider that in a time frame where thousands died yearly from duels (in many cases, both parties of the duel), many Spanish trained fighters walked away without grievous or life-threatening injuries. "

    In that regards I am thinking a Fighter of this style could be gaining the benefit similar to the Barbarian light armored defenders ability (which I have proposed as a reasonable class feature where you trade in heavy armor proficiency) . While this would boost the function of the light armored defender it doesn't bolster the value of Intelligence.


    * http://sjaqua.tripod.com/spanishc.htm

    One Character that leaps to mind for the Spanish Circle is Zorro.

    Any ideas?

    Perhaps this is actually a rogue fighting style but the emphasis of winning unharmed kind of doesn't feel like it.
    Last edited by Garthanos; Saturday, 8th June, 2019 at 08:32 PM.

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    The best reason to be an intelligent Fighter is Eldrich Knight and Ritual Caster Feat (IMO it's an almost always take feat to me).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
    The best reason to be an intelligent Fighter is Eldrich Knight and Ritual Caster Feat (IMO it's an almost always take feat to me).
    Swordmages did THAT better

    Their magic is part of their swordplay integrated with their magic not something pasted on where your magic is just like everyone else's and a selection of spells not even unique to your class. My swordmage dances through complex martial steps and weapon slices then throws his blade and it shatters in in a flurry of shards cutting the enemy to ribbons then coalescing in his hand and that "his magic" not some hand waving mumblers "spells".

    And intelligence directed their blade itself ...

    But regardless this is using brains in the martial arena not spell casting.
    Last edited by Garthanos; Saturday, 8th June, 2019 at 08:59 PM.

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    Thibaults Circle was almost mystical, though - much like many, ironically more familiar, eastern martial arts, I suppose.

    In 4e, it'd've been a simple matter of feats and/or a feature to switch the WIS bonus to OAs and the DEX references of many powers over to INT.

    In 5e you'd design a new subclass, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post
    Thibaults Circle was almost mystical, though - much like many, ironically more familiar, eastern martial arts, I suppose.
    And you know my opinion of making the Monk a psionic class too...
    for anyone else I think making "the martial artist" class not martial was idiotic and undermined the premise of martial pushing the boundaries heck I think the entire idea of it being a source has monk written on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post
    In 4e, it'd've been a simple matter of feats and/or a feature to switch the WIS bonus to OAs and the DEX references of many powers over to INT.
    Sure trying to come up with details I hadnt thought of swapping out Dex but yes it does make sense for the circles pattern based precision
    Last edited by Garthanos; Sunday, 23rd June, 2019 at 01:38 AM.

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    I always thought the "smart fighters" were Rogues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post

    In 4e, it'd've been a simple matter of feats and/or a feature to switch the WIS bonus to OAs and the DEX references of many powers over to INT.
    Perhaps have Combat Accuity instead of Combat Agility? but looking at Dex powers they do not seem too prevalent do you have a nice high dex fighter build this converts? (Rangers yes)

    The tempest fighter being two weaponed may be somewhat problematic (though I guess the maine gauche and rapier fits)
    Last edited by Garthanos; Sunday, 9th June, 2019 at 04:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Lewis View Post
    I always thought the "smart fighters" were Rogues.
    I never did as the useless thief of AD&D was my introduction to that archetype.
    Rogues are now fully fight worthy and so I can shift based on that... AND It is possible to do a smart rogue in 4e and it generally comes off as ninja like (shadowy rogue) I would say that is stylistic rather different than a fencing master with unusually high survivability and a measure of cold calculating dangerousness so to my thinking doesn't do the trick for this Thibault's Circle smart fighter style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garthanos View Post
    Perhaps have Combat Accuity instead of Combat Agility? but looking at Dex powers they do not seem too prevalent do you have a nice high dex fighter build this converts?
    The tempest fighter being two weaponed may be somewhat problematic (though I guess the maine gauche and rapier fits)
    I was thinking converting DEX-secondary Powers and DEX-preq Feats to INT.

    The single-one-handed-weapon archetype so common in fencing (&other martial arts) never got a great treatment in D&D, which is maybe too medieval and gear-focused for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Garthanos View Post
    I never did as the useless thief of AD&D was my introduction to that archetype.
    Rogues are now fully fight worthy and so I can shift based on that... AND It is possible to do a smart rogue in 4e and it generally comes off as ninja like (shadowy rogue)
    In 3e the rogue had some definite use for INT - but so did the Fighter who wanted the Expertise feat tree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post
    I was thinking converting DEX-secondary Powers and DEX-preq Feats to INT.
    Yeh but I am thinking those are mostly geared for tempest builds two weapon requirements .... or maybe brawler? and have grapples around them? (well that is one handed of a sorts)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post
    The single-one-handed-weapon archetype so common in fencing (&other martial arts) never got a great treatment in D&D, which is maybe too medieval and gear-focused for that.
    Yes I was thinking the one handed emphasis ... could be a good addition but I am thinking we may need new powers not just adopting the dex ones.

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