What lore from previous editions do you wish stayed?

Arnwolf666 · Jun 12, 2019

Or more specifically they just don’t have the biology to wield magic.

Gradine · Jun 12, 2019

This is what was missing from my fantasy all these years, biological essentialism

Psyzhran2357 · Jun 12, 2019

Meanwhile I'm glad that Mark of Warding Dwarves get bonuses to Dex and Int so I finally have a reason to even consider playing Dwarves.

Tony Vargas · Jun 12, 2019

Psyzhran2357 said:
It seems there's a mentality behind limiting options and codifying behaviour prevalent in older RPGs and their communities that I'm failing to grasp as to why they're good things.

There were competing carrot or stick philosophies of encouraging RP. 1e Paladins, Druids, Assassins, alignments, race restrictions &c were examples of the 'stick' - toe the line in how you play your character or the DM will punish you. 5e Inspiration is an example of a 'carrot.'

Maybe, because I'm an old timer, while the former look like a bad idea, in retrospect, they at least feel like D&D, while the latter looks like it was waylaid in the alley behind some indie game studio, and woke up in 5e.

Ultimately, though, mechanical 'encouragement' of RP - carrot or stick - is a little off, IMHO, RP is just part of playing an RPG, if the mechanics are good for play, they're good for RP, if they restrict play, they restrict RP.

billd91 · Jun 12, 2019

Gradine said:
This is what was missing from my fantasy all these years, biological essentialism

It's fantasy - I don't mind it at all. It helps serve as a means of distinguishing them from humans. Without some elements of it, it's all just a numbers game whether you play a dwarf or an elf. And that, to me, is backwards. If I want to play a dwarf, it means I want what that entails - the bonuses and the penalties and not just to make a more min-maxed character. And I'd also like it to mean more than playing a human that looks kind of different.

That said, I'm a reasonably easy GM on some of those things. For example, I didn't necessarily assume dwarves were biologically incapable of being wizards - just that there were none present in the adventuring population available for players to play. That didn't mean there wasn't a cabal of them operating under the Lortmil Mountains crafting some of the magic items their culture was so famous for (and which I used as a further motivating factor in the "Hateful Wars" of Greyhawk fought between the dwarves/gnomes and their humanoid enemies). Had a player really wanted to play one (as I had in my first 3e game), I'd have had him linked in to that cabal. Unfortunately, his schedule changed and he ended up unable to attend...

Staffan · Jun 12, 2019

Sorry to bother your discussion about dwarf wizards and cleric/warlocks and whatnot, but I just thought of another bit of lore that I miss from 4e: the Elemental Chaos. That is, the idea that the elements aren't separated into distinct planes that are all fire (so just going there will burn you to a crisp) or earth (so you'll be stuck in rock forever) or water (no air and infinite pressure) or air (falling forever). Instead, it's one plane where the elemental influences are turned up to 11, but since it's not made up of pure elements you can actually have adventures there without either instantly dying or having magic that makes the elemental influences window dressing. Salamanders swimming in a lake of lava: cool. All fire all the time: not.

flametitan · Jun 13, 2019

Staffan said:
Sorry to bother your discussion about dwarf wizards and cleric/warlocks and whatnot, but I just thought of another bit of lore that I miss from 4e: the Elemental Chaos. That is, the idea that the elements aren't separated into distinct planes that are all fire (so just going there will burn you to a crisp) or earth (so you'll be stuck in rock forever) or water (no air and infinite pressure) or air (falling forever). Instead, it's one plane where the elemental influences are turned up to 11, but since it's not made up of pure elements you can actually have adventures there without either instantly dying or having magic that makes the elemental influences window dressing. Salamanders swimming in a lake of lava: cool. All fire all the time: not.

The elemental chaos is still in 5e. If you travel far enough out in the inner planes, they start warping back into each other, and form into it.

doctorbadwolf · Jun 13, 2019

aco175 said:
I recall reading an article talking about kobold changes for 4e. Their role in the game needed to change since goblins filled their role as well and we did not need two monsters in the same role. Kobolds changed to dragon type to fill another role and still make them fit in the game. I also think that gnomes are not needed as much in 5e since dwarves fill their role as well. In the old editions gnomes could cast spells and that was different than dwarves, but now everyone can be every class and the gnome is kind of left out and could just be a sub-race of dwarf.

I’d sooner ditch Dwarves, but there’s no reason to ditch either. Gnomes are only dwarf like at the most shallow possible level.

Arnwolf666 · Jun 13, 2019

I actually prefer kobolds to be more like in fairy tales. So I like neither the dog faced or draconic kobolds. Il

doctorbadwolf · Jun 13, 2019

Things I miss.

Primal Spirits and Primal Magic that is wholly distinct from arcane or divine magic. Keep the weave in FR and stop trying to make it relevant to things other than the arcane, thanks.

The 4e Realms.

Gnolls from previous editions/Eberron style Gnolls being part of the game.

Elemental Chaos

the 4e Raven Queen

Dawn War

Consistent art direction for Gnomes, and their 3 and 4e lore is a treasure trove of good stuff

Cosmology where every world is it’s own. I don’t enjoy the “ Planescape is the default now” thing in 5e. No. Nerule is dead in PoLand, and a separate god of the same name is alive in Greyhawk, Eberron’s elves don’t come from Corellon at all, and unless I’m playing in a Spelljammer game, there are no crystal spheres. There’s just the cosmology of the world we are playing in, and potentially other realities that can be reached by planeshifting.

Halflings that aren’t hobbits with toddler proportions whose communities just don’t get attacked because the universe loves them too much.