D&D 5E Stargate RPG Announced from Wyvern Gaming

Matrix Sorcica · Jun 12, 2019

Caliburn101 said:
Zat'Nik'Tel weapons for instance - they ALWAYS drop you in the series no matter who you are and kill subsequently (if human and not serioulsy augmented in a way the main characters weren't) so they are an IWIN button once you have a big attack bonus and multiple attacks...

HP doesn't represent actual hits, right? (It's an age old discussion). The "hit" that drops you to 0 hp is the first actual hit, when it comes to Zat'Nik'Tel.

Caliburn101 said:
The predominant enemy soldiers for most of the series were the Jaffa - so are they going to level with the PCs or become an irrelevant speed bump when encountered after about 5th level?

Well, the baseline for 5e is that low level enemies remains relevant at higher lvls due to bounded accuracy.

Caliburn101 said:
If there is a multiple attack progression for martial types, how do you narrate your FN P90 on full auto magically getting more attacks in if the trigger is pressed by one person over another?

The weapons in Starfinder have to level - which is an awfully counter-intuitive mechanic and not one I have heard is well loved. But then there is ultra-tech everywhere in that so at least it can be narrated without cringing - in sharp contract to Stargate where the main characters of the series continue to use the assault rifle for most of the many series, so that isn't an option either.

There are plenty of 5e based modern/sci fi games that handle this, plus many more d20-derived as well. It's solvable.

Zardnaar · Jun 12, 2019

Caliburn101 said:
5e is plain wrong for this.

Zat'Nik'Tel weapons for instance - they ALWAYS drop you in the series no matter who you are and kill subsequently (if human and not serioulsy augmented in a way the main characters weren't) so they are an IWIN button once you have a big attack bonus and multiple attacks...

The predominant enemy soldiers for most of the series were the Jaffa - so are they going to level with the PCs or become an irrelevant speed bump when encountered after about 5th level?

If there is a multiple attack progression for martial types, how do you narrate your FN P90 on full auto magically getting more attacks in if the trigger is pressed by one person over another?

The weapons in Starfinder have to level - which is an awfully counter-intuitive mechanic and not one I have heard is well loved. But then there is ultra-tech everywhere in that so at least it can be narrated without cringing - in sharp contract to Stargate where the main characters of the series continue to use the assault rifle for most of the many series, so that isn't an option either.

I really think that this is by no means the best choice of system for a Stargate RPG.

I would treat full auto as an AoE, DC 8+ proficiency bonus+ dex modifer half damage on successful save. Base damage 3d8, burst fire mode -2 to hit 4d8 damage uses 3 shots.

Zat's maybe make them a dex save, you fail and you're unconscious, 2nd hit dead, 3rd hit disintegration. Give them low ammo capacity and can't be bought, you have to raid the Gou'ald.

5ekyu · Jun 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
I would treat full auto as an AoE, DC 8+ proficiency bonus+ dex modifer half damage on successful save. Base damage 3d8, burst fire mode -2 to hit 4d8 damage uses 3 shots.

Zat's maybe make them a dex save, you fail and you're unconscious, 2nd hit dead, 3rd hit disintegration. Give them low ammo capacity and can't be bought, you have to raid the Gou'ald.

Unfortunatrly, the specs you give for zat dont match the series.

Looking at their scuffed and bloodied idea, I would try the following

CORE mechanic: Exposed. Most "hits" by any weapon cause hp damage. If a character is "exposed" each weapon type has additional effects that apply. Exposed is a condition that equates to being open for the more serious effects of a "good hit" to apply.

A character is considered exposed in cases like:
The character is bloodied (below 50%hp)
The hit is a crit.
The character is surprised.

For zat, the exposed effect eould be a con save with success meaning you get one turn before going to unconscious. Failure means going to unconscious. (Or certain features of character might allow retaliation strikes)

For gunshots, you get saves vs "shock".

Auto fire should in some way make exposing more likely- higher crit chance maybe) especially when used to hose down the enemy.

This general model likely produces a combat style where surprise does wonders st dropping folks, the first flurry of straight up combat is survivable but you are well incentivized to find cover.

Just one spproach.

Mistwell · Jun 12, 2019

There are a lot of people responding to this thread without reading the thread and seeing the designer posted a lengthy post about alterations to classes, hit points, equipment, levels, etc.. which address a lot of the complaints people are expressing. Maybe read what he said before proclaiming "5e can't work for this!!!!!"

Mutants and Masterminds and Spycraft both came out of 3e and did incredible things to alter the base system to make a new kind of system. This seems to be the same thing for 5e. At least read about the outline of those major changes first?

Aldarc · Jun 12, 2019

Mistwell said:
There are a lot of people responding to this thread without reading the thread and seeing the designer posted a lengthy post about alterations to classes, hit points, equipment, levels, etc.. which address a lot of the complaints people are expressing. Maybe read what he said before proclaiming "5e can't work for this!!!!!"

Mutants and Masterminds and Spycraft both came out of 3e and did incredible things to alter the base system to make a new kind of system. This seems to be the same thing for 5e. At least read about the outline of those major changes first?

Ummm...IMHO, if you are changing 5e that much to make it work, you basically are creating a new system and a good sign that the original system is not necessarily a good fit. (FYI, I did read what the designer posted, and that only further supports my sentiment.)

Zardnaar · Jun 12, 2019

5ekyu said:
Unfortunatrly, the specs you give for zat dont match the series.

Looking at their scuffed and bloodied idea, I would try the following

CORE mechanic: Exposed. Most "hits" by any weapon cause hp damage. If a character is "exposed" each weapon type has additional effects that apply. Exposed is a condition that equates to being open for the more serious effects of a "good hit" to apply.

A character is considered exposed in cases like:
The character is bloodied (below 50%hp)
The hit is a crit.
The character is surprised.

For zat, the exposed effect eould be a con save with success meaning you get one turn before going to unconscious. Failure means going to unconscious. (Or certain features of character might allow retaliation strikes)

For gunshots, you get saves vs "shock".

Auto fire should in some way make exposing more likely- higher crit chance maybe) especially when used to hose down the enemy.

This general model likely produces a combat style where surprise does wonders st dropping folks, the first flurry of straight up combat is survivable but you are well incentivized to find cover.

Just one spproach.

The stats were for a P90.

Zardnaar · Jun 12, 2019

Aldarc said:
Ummm...IMHO, if you are changing 5e that much to make it work, you basically are creating a new system and a good sign that the original system is not necessarily a good fit. (FYI, I did read what the designer posted, and that only further supports my sentiment.)

Not really they're using the 5E engine and probably having different skills and new classes to match the 5E genre.

IDK if the basic idea though (hit point based class game) is actually that good for the genre though. And things like zats.

Is O'Neil a level 6 Soldier, 4 officer for example. Daniel an archaeologist/soldier, Samantha a scientist/soldier, T'ealc pure soldier.

5ekyu · Jun 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Not really they're using the 5E engine and probably having different skills and new classes to match the 5E genre.

IDK if the basic idea though (hit point based class game) is actually that good for the genre though. And things like zats.

Is O'Neil a level 6 Soldier, 4 officer for example. Daniel an archaeologist/soldier, Samantha a scientist/soldier, T'ealc pure soldier.

I see that too.
5e is not inflexible and a lot of games seems to have done a lot with it.

Superchunk77 · Jun 12, 2019

Aldarc said:
Ummm...IMHO, if you are changing 5e that much to make it work, you basically are creating a new system and a good sign that the original system is not necessarily a good fit. (FYI, I did read what the designer posted, and that only further supports my sentiment.)

Completely agree with you.

On one hand you've got a very popular RPG system (5e) which works great for fantasy games (including Middle Earth). I can see the developers wanting to leverage the popularity of the system in an effort to garner more attention for their game. Fine.

On the other, from a mechanics perspective, you're trying to bolt a fantasy RPG (5e) onto a modern setting (Stargate) that uses high tech gear, firearms, completely new combat tactics, and zero magic. To me that seems like a lot of extra work and risk for very little reward. That's almost like trying to play a Warhammer 40k game using the Ponyfinder RPG book.

Mistwell · Jun 12, 2019

Aldarc said:
Ummm...IMHO, if you are changing 5e that much to make it work, you basically are creating a new system and a good sign that the original system is not necessarily a good fit. (FYI, I did read what the designer posted, and that only further supports my sentiment.)

There are two issues in play: 1) Marketability, and 2) Mechanical fit.

Going with any other system than D&D 5e is a MASSIVE hit to marketability. So you better have such a huge leap in mechanical fit that it just completely outweighs that marketability fit.

On the other hand, if you can tweak the mechanics of 5e to fit "good enough" while retaining that big marketability fit, then you go with 5e.

I think that's what is in play with this issue.

And I think it's an error to assume that a big change to the skeletal mechanics is a bad idea. Spycraft and Mutants & Masterminds changed the landscape for 3e for the better. Some of the games you think are mechanically better fits probably wouldn't even exist without some groundbreaking work which was done to modify 3e before, and both spawned mini-industries of their own. Sometimes the net effect of these sorts of alterations to an existing popular system gets you a lot more than you might think on paper before it happens.