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    4e Clone − help create it!

    Foursome (4e Clone, 5e Update)

    Contents
    • Character
    • Combat
    • Appendix



    Notes to edit this post.


    Contribute to this 4e-style gaming system!

    Use available nomenclature from 5e and 3e, or invent a new nomenclature. Avoid unlicensed 4e terms.

    Keep the math compatible with 5e, so any creations here can also work in a standard 5e campaign. Note, this system consolidates into four abilities: Strength and Dexterity, and Intelligence and Charisma. You can still use just these four abilities for your character in a standard 5e campaign.

    If choosing to translate the four abilities into six, then separate out from Strength the hit points adjustments and fortitude defense to create Constitution. Use the Athletics skill for both Athletics and Acrobatics. To create Wisdom, pull the perception skills from Intelligence, and the willpower defense from Charisma.

    When making contributions, include any notes for fellow game designers in double brackets [[ ]]. For example, the term ‘profession’ is noted to be equivalent to the 4e term [[theme]] and the 5e term [[background]]. A final product would physically remove such comments.

    It is ok for you to edit to ‘improve’ the 4e-style system according to your own taste. But please, in your posts, discuss any edits (and their locations) that are probably controversial. Ultimately, our community decides which aspects are ‘default’ and which aspects are ‘variant’.

    When organizing categories, try use the ‘Rule of Four’. In other words, ‘Three Plus’. So there is never more than four things to consider at any one time. If there is, one of these four subdivides into a group of choices. For example, the list of races to choose from is 1. Human, 2. Dwarf, 3. Elf, and 4. ‘Other’, where other races can be found in Appendix Races.





    Character
    Create Your Character


    To create a character, think of a concept that you want to play. Maybe reduce the concept down to six words, or a sentence or two. When you do the following steps of character creation, keep your concept in mind. Compare the broad concepts of style and realm, and how your character concept relates to these.

    Choose your race, class, and ability bonuses.

    Your race might include several cultures to choose from. Your class might require one of several archetypes to specialize in. Determine your ability bonuses. Some race and class options have a prerequisite that requires a minimum number for a particular ability bonus.

    Choose your skills and equipment.

    After choosing your race, class, and abilities, choose your skills [[4e theme, 5e background]], and equipment. Race and class might add certain skills and equipment.

    Make an impression. Choose your physical appearance and personality traits.

    Pull all of the aspects of your character together into your overall concept. When someone sees you, what is the first thing they notice? Describe your personality traits, including values and identity.

    Decide your personal name, and any alias, nickname, and title.

    Finally, describe your relationships.





    Styles and Realms
    Styles and Realms


    When thinking about races and classes, each tends to specialize in certain styles and certain realms.

    Styles are ways of engaging reality.
    Worldly. The worldly style focuses on the experiences of our five senses, the powers of our bodies, and our ability to learn and exploit the physical properties of nature, and to invent and master new tools.
    Arcane. The arcane style explores the mysterious aspects of reality, the interconnections between all that exists, the mutual influences, and the capacity to shift, distort, permute, and transform phenomena according to our attention and intention.
    Void. The void style degenerates into the nihilistic and sometimes spooky possibilities, contemplating death, emptiness, oblivion, and nothingness. Void seems a special application of the arcane style, in a way that is the antithesis of the divine style.
    Divine. The divine style contemplates being itself, often relating to aspects of the transcendent ‘fifth element’ that is understood variously as light, energy, space, time, consciousness, lifeforce, immortality, and force.

    The realms are the phenomena that these styles engage.
    Matter. The material realm is matter and energy. Arcanists often approach this as five mystical elements, grouping into earth-fire and air-water, plus energy and space as aspects of the fifth element. Earth-fire often specializes in minerals, chemicals, and properties of heat. Air-water often specializes in weather, and its winds, lightning, and thunder, its cycles of water, and properties of cold and ice. In a more worldly style, the material realm offers tools, mechanical apparatuses, and useful technology.
    Mind. The mental realm is the transcendent mystery of consciousness itself − taken for granted and often unnoticed − plus the inner world of intellect and emotions. The arcane investigations of our minds, include telepathy between minds, the ability to mentally perceive, know, and influence phenomena beyond our physical bodies − even transcending space time in divine contemplation. Worldly approaches include empathy, emotional persuasion or intimidation, other social skills, as well as intellectual pursuits of knowledge and investigation. The five arcane elements can appear to worldly scientists as states of matter, being solid-plasma and gas-liquid, plus the fifth element in its aspects of energy and empty space.
    Life. The life realm is an indivisible blend of mind and matter. The worldly style discovers the wondrous web of diversity of living organisms, including plants, animals, and we humanoids ourselves − and our ability to survive out in the wilds of nature. Our own body is a marvel of lifeforce, and our athletes push its limits with our enthusiastic celebration. Our body has an aura of vitality coursing thu and around it, sometimes called the lifeforce, the soul, the ‘form’, or the ki or chi. In the arcane style, some meditate to willfully reshape the flow of this lifeforce in order to shift the shape of a living organism along the new fields of lifeforce aura. Divine contemplation intuits the implications of life itself, including powers of healing that emanate from ones preexisting transcendent wellbeing.
    Force. The force realm are the mysterious fields that pull our universe together and push our universe apart. Physical forces include gravity and elemental forces, yet seem to reciprocate the presence of a conscious observer, and ultimately entwine life itself. The divine style unites with the fundament of reality itself, and even to emanated wishes into existence. The arcanists generally agree force in these more miraculous potentials is ultimately the fabric of all magic, sometimes called the ‘Weave’, or simply the ‘Force’. The void style might study how to block out or even annihilate this vibrancy of magical potential. Many arcanists specialize in consciously manipulate these entwining universal forces for telekinetic effects, such as flying physical objects, or to conjure virtual objects made out of quasi-solid fields of source. The worldly style notes the experiences of magic as feelings of awe and eerie. The science of arcana seeks to understand or at least sketch out how the Force emanates as its myriad ways of magic. Likewise its models track other planes of being including otherworldly creatures who visit from there.

    In sum, the four styles of changing reality are worldy action, arcane alteration, void annihilation, and divine emanation.

    In some parlances of research, the four realms of reality comprise sectors of technology: matter mechanical technology, mind psychic technology (also called cybernetic technology), life biological technology, and force unification technology. In certain jargon: mekatek, psiteck (cytek), biotek, and unitek.





    Race
    Race


    For your race, you can choose a human, dwarf, elf, or other. For an other race, including an other elf culture, see Appendix Races.

    Depending on who populates your adventure setting, your DM might give you a different set of possible races to choose from.

    Depending on the setting, each race or culture might have its own primary language. Every character is proficient in ones own primary language, whatever it is. To learn an additional language, you can swap out any skill proficiency for a language proficiency instead.

    [[Note, this race format has an ‘Ability Prerequisite’. These are prerequisites, NOT improvements. In other words, the character must have a +2 Dexterity or higher in order to choose the wood elf. A +1 Dexterity or lower cannot be a wood elf. Prerequisites help the math of bounded accuracy and, importantly, allow most races to excel at any class, since there is no ability improvement that makes a certain race a must-have for a certain class.]]



    HUMAN

    Humanity is the measure of all things. And all things are in comparison to them. Humans tend to specialize in worldly classes. But individuals vary wildly, and almost any endeavor is possible.

    Human Features

    Ability Prerequisite: None
    Average Size:
    Medium
    (roughly 5 feet 7, often males taller and females shorter)

    Skill Proficiency: Any skill.
    Tool Proficiency: Any tool.
    Tool Expertise: Any tool that you have proficiency with but not yet expertise with.

    Human Power: Any novice tier feat that you qualify for.



    ELF

    The Elf race divides into two main branches. One is more dexterous, one is more charismatic. Each branch develops its own cultures. Elves tend to specialize in magic. Ultimately, each culture adapts and evolves magically. The elven diversity can be remarkable.



    Sylvan Branch

    The sylvan branch are mainly forest dwellers, who perfuse the worldly style with magic, with high elf culture blending the arcane style, and wood elf culture blending the life realm.

    Both high and wood prefer to inhabit the liminal thresholds between a human town and a pristine forest. They are fond of the human but protective of the wilderness. High elf tradition magically shapes luxurious treehouse towns out of living trees. Wood elf clans roam the wilds as nomads − camping in tents that are simple and magically comfortable.



    HIGH ELF

    High Elf Features

    Ability Prerequisites: +1 Dexterity, +1 Intelligence
    Average Size: Medium
    (roughly 5 feet 9)

    Trance
    Cantrip
    ...



    WOOD ELF

    Wood Elf Features

    Ability Prerequisite: Dexterity +2
    Average Size: Medium
    (roughly 5 feet 7)

    Skill Proficiency: Whenever you gain a proficiency in a skill from an other source, you can instead choose proficiency in Athletics, Hearing, or Nature. If you have all three, you can instead choose Arcane, Scent, Stealth, or Survival.

    Trance
    Darkvision
    Fleet of Foot
    Elven Accuracy



    Trance // Detection 2
    Arcane Life // Short Rest • Day
    Effect: conscious 1 hour short rest as 8 hour long rest
    Elves cannot sleep. You are immune to the Unconscious condition. Magic cannot put you to sleep. Often you remain active all night. For an hour each day, you trance. Trance resembles meditation, dreaming lucidly as a mental exercise, while remaining fully conscious of your surroundings. After resting this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from a long rest.

    Darkvision // Detection Stealth 2
    Arcane Life
    Target: in close range
    Effect: darkvision
    Accustomed to nocturnal forest, you have extraordinary vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in darkness in close range (30 feet) as if dim. You cannot discern color in darkness, only shades of gray. Actual dim light at any range is as if bright light to you.

    Fleet of Foot // Mobility 2
    Worldly Arcane Life
    Effect: Speed + reach
    Effect: ignore difficult terrain
    You move swiftly and precisely achieving an additional reach (+10 feet speed). You outrun most humans. Difficult terrain cannot slow you.

    Elven Accuracy // Attack 2
    Worldly Arcane Life
    Trigger: when advantage on attack
    Effect: can reroll one d20
    The accuracy of elves is legendary, especially elven war mages, archers, and swordfighters. You have uncanny aim with attacks that rely on precision. Whenever you gain advantage on an attack roll, you can reroll one of the two dice.



    Eladrin Branch

    The eladrin branch are otherworldly beings. These elves tend to specialize in the magic of the arcane and divine styles.

    The prominent eladrin cultures are the sun elf being hedonistic mages of art and science, and the moon elf being courageous explorers of people and places. The two cultures feel affinity with each other but tend to live separate lives.

    The sun elf are quintessentially urban with advanced magical technologies, inhabiting self-sufficient cityscapes that float in the sky, or supertowers that pierce the clouds, often in an other plane. The moon elf wield magic to explore new lands and new creatures, in search of new magics.

    [[Sun Elf might relate to Forgotten Realms Sun Elf, 1e Faerie, and 4e Eladrin. Moon Elf might relate to Forgotten Realms Moon Elf, 1e Elf.]]



    SUN ELF

    Sun Elf Features

    Ability Prerequisite: +2 Charisma
    Average Size: Medium
    (roughly 5 feet 10)

    ...
    Misty Step
    ...



    MOON ELF

    Moon Elf Features

    Ability Prerequisite: +1 Charisma, +1 Dexterity
    Average Size: Medium
    (roughly 5 feet 10)

    ...



    OTHER RACE

    To choose an other race, including an other Elf culture, see Appendix Races.





    Class
    Class


    Choose your class. Each class organizes by source. You can find other classes to choose from in Appendix Classes.

    Worldly style
    • Fighter
    • Rogue
    • Knight [[Warlord, Battlemaster]]
    • Scout [[4e Ranger]]
    • Sage

    Arcane style
    • Wizard
    • Feyknight [[Swordmage, Bladesinger]]

    Void style
    • Warlock
    • Necromancer

    Divine style
    • Cleric
    • Paladin

    Realm of matter
    • Artificer
    • Sorcerer

    Realm of mind
    • Bard
    • Psion

    Ream of life
    • Druid
    • Ranger

    Realm of force
    • Kinete



    Depending on what is appropriate for your setting, your DM might give you a different list of possible classes to choose from.

    [[See Advancement. Its table is the chassis to create a class, for each of the four tiers, novice, hero, master, and immortal.]]



    Fighter class
    ...



    Wizard
    ...



    Other Class

    To choose an other class, including an other archetype of the Fighter or of the Wizard, see Appendix Classes.





    Ability Bonuses
    Ability Bonuses


    Your ability bonuses define the things that you tend to be good at. Your aptitudes. For example, a high Strength bonus makes you inherently good at various challenges that need you to be physically strong.



    Physical Ability Bonuses

    Strength represents your brute strength, toughness, and size.
    Dexterity represents your precise motion, skillful athleticism, and dodging.

    Mental Ability Bonuses

    Intelligence represents your five senses, analysis, and intuition.
    Charisma represents your social skills, empathy, and willpower.



    Heroic Array

    When you create your character, assign each number in the standard array in any order to fill out the four ability bonuses. Your choice of race or class might require a minimum number for a certain ability bonus.

    • +3, +2, +1, +0



    [[Note, abilities are probably the most important mechanics in the game. They need to be salient, balanced, and work well. For the sake that abilities that are equally powerful and equally useful, the abilities here consolidate to four abilities. These abilities (Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Charisma) thus function as the four 4e defenses (Fortitude, Reflex, Perception, and Will). When referring to earlier 4e publications, such as monster stat blocks, eliminate Constitution and Wisdom, and the rest of the stat block remains moreorless accurate.]]





    Skills
    Skills


    Skills

    Skills finetune your ability bonuses. In a challenge, when you are proficient in a relevant skill, you add your proficiency bonus to your ability bonus. Skills are mainly useful for noncombat challenges, but might be useful during combat too.

    Each ability bonus corresponds to a skill set.



    Strength skills

    Constitution − stamina, avoid exhaustion, endure harsh environment, stay healthy
    Weightlifting − pull, push, lift, carry, bend bars, break door



    Dexterity skills

    Athletics − run, jump, fall, balance, tumble, climb, swim, winged flight
    Sleight of Hand − disarm trap, pick lock, pick pocket, palm item
    Stealth − hide creature, conceal object, avoid detection, hide tracks



    Intelligence skills

    Cunning Lore

    Alchemy − proto-chemistry, elementalism, acid, masonry, metalsmithing, jewelry
    Arcana − detect magic, identify spells, planes
    Crafting − create and repair item, technical skill, replica, forgery, disguise, illusion

    Ethnos Lore

    History − cultures, customs, religions, famous individuals
    Language − discern gist of unknown language, use known language comprehensively

    Natural Lore

    Medicine − healing, anatomy, poison, disease
    Nature − plants, animals, animal training, riding, tracking
    Survival − geography, navigation, sailing, foraging, weather

    Sense

    Hearing − detect faint sounds
    Seeing − visual acumen, far sight
    Smelling − olfactory discernment and taste
    Wisdom − prediction, intuition, hunch, extrasensory perception, clairvoyance, fate



    Charisma skills

    Intimidation − willpower, fear, force surrender, confuse, create diversion
    Persuasion − charm, diplomacy, morale, esthetic performance
    Empathy − telepathy, soul, mind, immortality, relate emotion, intent, motive, street smarts



    Profession

    Your profession [[4e theme, 5e background, PF2 skill feat]] determines which skills you have proficiency with.

    What are your skills? How do you earn a living? How do you fit within your culture? Who are your associates, mentors, influential contacts, and special connections? What perks and privileges do you enjoy?

    While your class mainly represents combat, your profession mainly represents noncombat. They might obviously relate, such as a Fighter who works as a Guard. Or they might seem unrelated at first glance, such as a Fighter who is an Oracle.

    Your profession grants you two skills, a specialized capability, membership in an organization, a helpful contact, and a special perk or privilege. Additionally, your race and class might also add certain proficiencies.

    Some professions can be unique to the specific culture of a race, thus exemplify a significant institution of that culture.



    Professions

    Artisan
    Criminal
    Entertainer
    Farmer
    Folk Hero
    Guard
    Noble
    Oracle
    Pirate
    Sage
    Sailor
    Urchin
    ...





    Equipment
    Equipment


    Armors
    ...

    Weapons

    Weapon Size. A Medium size creature can wield a Medium weapon in the mainhand; a Small weapon in the offhand; and must use both hands for a Large weapon. A creature of a different size scales accordingly. A Large size creature can wield a Large weapon in the mainhand, a Heavy weapon in the offhand, and so on.

    • Dagger − 1d4 pierce, Tiny, finesse, throw (close)
    • Shortsword − 1d6 slash or pierce, Small, finesse (gladius, seax)
    • Sword − 1d8 slash or pierce, Medium, finesse (knightly sword, vikingsword, katana, rapier)
    • Longsword − 1d10 slash, Heavy, versatile 1d12 (bastard sword, claymore)
    • Greatsword − 1d12 slash, Larger, two-handed, reach (buster sword, bihaander)

    • Staff 1d6 bludgeon, versatile 1d8 and finesse if two-handed (quarterstaff, jo stick)



    Crude Equipment. Usually because of lack of technology or resources, crude weapons and armors might resemble standard ones but are less effective.

    Nonmetal

    Hide Armor
    Wood Armor

    Metal

    Ring Leather Armor
    Bronze Plate Armor



    Tools
    ...

    Vehicles
    ...

    Trinkets
    ...

    Other
    ...





    Impression
    Impression


    What is the impression that your character creates. What are the first things that others might notice about you. Your physical appearance is probably first. Then your personality traits. Keep your overall character concept in mind when you describe these.



    Physical Description

    Race, size, physical abilities, muscularity, physique, posture, way of walking, esthetic style, eye color, skin and hair color, haircut, distinguishing marks, clothing preferences, jewelry, cosmetics, spectacles, or so on.



    Personality Traits

    Values
    • Alignment
    • Ideal
    • Goal
    • Flaw

    Identity
    • Significant Person
    • Signficant Organization
    • Signficant Place
    • Quirk

    Race, class, and profession might suggest personality traits. Or you might instead individualize your own traits. Alignment describes ones ethical outlook, such as Good (symbiotic) or Evil (predatory), or Lawful (collectivist) or Chaotic (individualist). Also add a sense of how your own actions tend to express your alignment. An Ideal is your core belief or value system that motivates you to take action. A Goal is a longterm goal that you strive to ultimately attain. A strong friendship with a sibling might be a significant person to you, while a strong identification with the honor of your clan might be a significant organization or even an Ideal. Adversarially, a signficant person might be your rival who you compete against, while a significant organization might be an enemy that harmed you or your loved ones. A Flaw is usually the darkside of ones ideal. A person who is courageous, might hate to play it safe. A Quirk is some weird fact about your character that conveys your character concept. Perhaps you read every book in the library while you were a young student. Perhaps you are obsessed with some hobby. Try to have at least one example for each trait.





    Name
    Name


    You have probably already decided the personal name of your character.

    Is there a nickname that friends have given you? Or an alias for some reason?

    You might have a clan name as a family name. A tribe name. A city name, like Di Vinci.

    Is there a formal government title or educational degree that an organization conferred on you? A byname referring to some wellknown event?





    Relationships
    Relationships


    Now, that you have a sense of who you are. Who are the other members of your adventuring team? What do you all have in common? Why are you working together? Maybe you all study at the same school, or work for the same person?



    Relationships

    List the names of each person in your team, as well as any significant persons that you often have in mind.

    Write down a brief description of what your character thinks of each one, as few as six words, or as long as a sentence or two.





    Advancement
    Advancement Table


    As you adventure, you overcome challenges and gain competence. Thus you advance to higher levels, and gain new features and powers from your race, class, skill, and feats from personal experience.

    Class features include standard class features such as every Fighter gains, as well as specialization features such as a Battlemaster Fighter gains.

    You gain features from class and specialization features at odd-number levels, 1, 3, 5, etcetera.

    You gain features from race, feat, and skill at even-number levels, 2, 4, 6, etcetera.



    Tier

    Level Proficiency
    Bonus
    Magic
    Bonus
    Features
    +0 Race
    NOVICE 0 +1 Talent
    0 +1 Feat
    0 +1 Class
    0 +1 Skill
    1 +2 Talent
    2 +2 Feat
    3 +2 Capstone
    4 +2 Race
    ARCHETYPE 5 +3 Archetype
    6 +3 Feat
    7 +3 +1 Class
    8 +3 +1 Skill
    9 +4 +1 Archetype
    10 +4 +1 Feat
    11 +4 +2 Capstone
    12 +4 +2 Race
    MASTER 13 +5 +2 Mastery
    14 +5 +2 Feat
    15 +5 +3 Class
    16 +5 +3 Skill
    17 +6 +3 Mastery
    18 +6 +3 Feat
    19 +6 +4 Capstone
    20 +6 +4 Race
    IMMORTAL 21 +7 +4 Immortality
    22 +7 +4 Feat
    23 +7 +5 Class
    24 +7 +5 Skill





    Feats
    Feats


    While you advance in levels, you gain a choice of a feat at certain levels. See Appendix Feats for a list of feat descriptions.





    Combat

    ...



    Size
    Size


    Human size tends to be Medium, exhibiting a middleweight build. But many individuals are heavyweight, Heavy, or lightweight, Small. Exceptional individuals might even reach Large size.

    A Large creature has at least Strength +4, hitting harder and carrying more.

    Strength Prerequiste: Size
    −4: Tiny
    −2: Small
    +0: Medium
    +2: Heavy
    +4: Large
    +6: Huge
    +8: Gargantuan





    Bonus Types
    Bonus Tyeps


    There are five types of bonuses. If you gain two or more bonuses of the same type, they dont stack, so use whichever is highest.

    Depending on changing circumstances, your DM might adjudicate on the fly to grant you an advantage, or penalize you with a disadvantage.

    Your DM might also award you an Inspiration Point, for you to use to gain advantage, because of your playing true to your character concept or engaging the narrative in an interesting way.

    Bonus Types
    • Ability bonus (Strength, Intelligence, etcetera)
    • Proficiency bonus (depending on tier)
    • Magic bonus (available magic items and masterworks, but a setting might make it innate)
    • Item bonus (technology, armor bonus, defense amulet, helpful tool)
    • Expertise bonus (training, insight, instinct, cultural familiarity, Bless spell effect, etc.)

    Advantage
    Advantage or disadvantage.





    Grappling
    Grappling


    Grappling represents wrestling, grabbing, pulling, and pushing.

    To make a grappling attack, add d20 to whichever is highest, your Dexterity bonus (for agility and leverage) or your Strength bonus (for physical size and power).

    To make a grappling defense, add 10 to whichever is highest, Dexterity or Strength.

    However, always use Strength to keep a hold ongoing.

    For example.

    To break out of a hold, you attack via your Dexterity versus your opponents Strength.

    To climb onto a Dinosaur, you attack via your Dexterity to grab on around a neck or a horn, and an unwilling Dinosaur attacks via its Dexterity versus your Strength to shake you off.

    Grappling attacks are natural unarmed attacks, with or without proficiency.





    Health
    Heath


    Hit points
    ...

    Health Conditions
    • Fresh (more than half hit points)
    • Bloodied (half hit points or lower)
    • Dying (0 hit points)

    Rest
    Periods of rest correspond to periods of performing a ritual, or other tasks.

    • Rest (about 15 minutes)
    • Session (about 1 hour)
    • Sleep (about 8 hours)
    • Week (about 7 days of downtime)

    Hit Dice
    ...

    Second Wind
    ...





    Appendix

    Appendix Races

    Appendix Classes

    Appendix Professions

    Appendix Feats

    Appendix Spells

    Appendix Magic Items


    Appendix Beasts
    Last edited by Yaarel; Wednesday, 26th June, 2019 at 03:25 AM.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    [Edit] The ability bonuses consolidated to four: Strength and Dexterity, Intelligence and Charisma. [/Edit]




    Abilities and defenses are probably the most important mechanics in the entire game. They need to work extremely well.

    Unfortunately, they are the most familiar mechanics, thus the most difficult to improve.

    In the first post, in ‘Ability Bonuses’, I have added two more ability scores. So there is a total of eight ability scores. These are, physically and mentally:

    • Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Athletics
    • Intelligence, Sense, Wisdom, Charisma

    Surely, the addition will prove controversial. I leave it up to you editors to consider these abilities and to modify according to taste.

    In any case, each of the eight abilities seem salient and intuitive to use.



    With these eight, each ability becomes equally powerful and equally useful.

    ‘Athletics’ splits off from Strength, to cover grappling, finesse weapons, jumping, falling, and other types of movement. Thus Dexterity refers mainly to manual dexterity, including missile weapons and crafting. Strength can also suggest Size, so giants with extreme Strength also exhibit extreme Size.

    ‘Sense’ splits off from Wisdom to represent the five physical senses. Animals might have extreme Sense but not necessarily have high Wisdom or high Intelligence. Sense notes a description of a sensation, but doesnt necessarily know how to interpret it, which requires Intelligence. Thus Wisdom represents mental force and sanity, and the Intimidation skill. Charisma represents mental agility, social skills, and the Persuasion skill.

    4e routinely refers to ‘passive perception’ as a fixed number. Here, Perception functions as one of the defenses. Perception defends against attempts to hide, to be invisible, to create illusion, to impersonate, and so on.

    Discuss any ideas or concerns relating to abilities and defenses in the posts below.



    Also check out the Advancement table. It essentially lays out the chassis for creating a new class. It also shows what levels higher-level race powers and features become available. Likewise what levels a profession makes skills and skill powers, and special perks available.
    Last edited by Yaarel; Wednesday, 19th June, 2019 at 05:05 AM.

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    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)



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    Seems more like you want eple to design your loveletter over 4E. 8 ability scores for example is fairly pointless.
    XP DEFCON 1 gave XP for this post

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    Seems more like you want eple to design your loveletter over 4E. 8 ability scores for example is fairly pointless.
    We will see how people feel about having 8 ability scores. But there are many good reasons to have these 8. They are equally powerful to each other. And salient to describe well various kinds of creatures and abilities.

    Personally, in the traditional six, I find the fact that Dexterity is a super-stat while Intelligence is a dump-stat, to be frustrating.

    This fundamental imbalance wont happen with the eight.

    Anyway, feel free to change them if you wish. Maybe allow for some discussion first.

  6. #6
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    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)



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    The reason intelligence sucks is they don't assign anything to it in 5E and theres really only 1 class that can use it.

    Extra languages and skill points are an option perhaps a bonus back ground, non combat feat etc are other options. Said clone would use int or dex for dex saves I assume that is another buff to it. Have some class like Monk that uses dex/int instead of dex/wisdom. 5E has a glut of charisma based classes most of which are also some of the best in the game.
    Last edited by Zardnaar; Wednesday, 12th June, 2019 at 05:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    The reason intelligence sucks is they don't assign anything to it in 5E and theres really only 1 class that can use it.

    Extra languages and skill points are an option perhaps a bonus back ground, non combat feat etc are other options. Said clone would use int or dex for dex saves I assume that is another buff to it. Have some class like Monk that uses dex/int instead of dex/wisdom. 5E has a glut of charisma based classes most of which are also some of the best in the game.
    Abilities should be useful regardless of class.

    Lore skills and languages are less satisfactory to make Intelligence worthwhile. Intelligence must include something frequently useful in combat.

    4e made a good start at making Intelligence a more meaningful investment. It combines Intelligence with Dexterity for Reflex. But this combination still feels awkward. Intelligence still feels less important than Dexterity. And when Dexterity is a must-have, Intelligence gets dumped.

    At the very least, Intelligence would need to get ‘Sense’, the five senses and the ability to detect and notice things. This makes Intelligence important to have, and by taking Sense away from Wisdom, Wisdom too becomes more balanced.

    In the eight abilities, Sense is counted separately, as its own important ability. Intelligence is basically for interpretation, insight, reason, research, examination, and ‘investigation’. In combat, Intelligence might identify weakness and vulnerabilities. Wisdom is mental power, including psychic damage, and fear effects. Among these three abilities, Sense, Intelligence, and Wisdom, each one isnt too powerful, but are useful and about equal in worth.

    Some animals, like Dog, have a very high Sense bonus. Some races might too, like Wood Elf (sight and hearing) and Gnome (smell). It is useful to assign a high number for Sense without assuming a massively high willpower because of Wisdom. For example, a Deer might have high Sense (to notice predators) but low Wisdom (fleeing in panic at a moments notice).
    Last edited by Yaarel; Wednesday, 12th June, 2019 at 05:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaarel View Post
    Abilities should be useful regardless of class.

    Lore skills and languages are less satisfactory to make Intelligence worthwhile. Intelligence must include something frequently useful in combat.

    4e made a good start at making Intelligence a more meaningful investment. It combines Intelligence with Dexterity for Reflex. But this combination still feels awkward. Intelligence still feels less important than Dexterity. And when Dexterity is a must-have, Intelligence gets dumped.

    At the very least, Intelligence would need to get ‘Sense’, the five senses and the ability to detect and notice things. This makes Intelligence important to have, and by taking Sense away from Wisdom, Wisdom too becomes more balanced.

    In the eight abilities, Sense is counted separately, as its own important ability. Intelligence is basically for interpretation, insight, reason, research, examination, and ‘investigation’. In combat, Intelligence might identify weakness and vulnerabilities. Wisdom is mental power, including psychic damage, and fear effects. Among these three abilities, Sense, Intelligence, and Wisdom, each one isnt too powerful, but are useful and about equal in worth.

    Some animals, like Dog, have a very high Sense bonus. Some races might too, like Wood Elf (sight and hearing) and Gnome (smell). It is useful to assign a high number for Sense without assuming a massively high willpower because of Wisdom. For example, a Deer might have high Sense (to notice predators) but low Wisdom (fleeing in panic at a moments notice).
    That is because 4E and 5E added dex to damage. Remove that and give dex based stuff extra damage via sneak attack or multiple weaker attacks like the 5E monk or AD&D rate of fire on bows.

    When dex is a major save, initiative, major skills (including combat ones hello sneak) and melee and ranged to hit and damage that is what made it uber. 4E had to resort to gating stuff behind powers which didn't work so well. Drop rapiers down to d6, or find something else for dex to do like rapid strike, dual wielding, accuracy or something.

    OSR clones you dont get dex to damage, or dex to initiative. 3E,4E and 5E also went a bit over board on two handed weapons as well- 3E power attacj, 4E 1W, 2W etc benefit 1d12 and 2d6 weapons a lot and 5E GWM feat.
    Last edited by Zardnaar; Wednesday, 12th June, 2019 at 06:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    That is because 4E and 5E added dex to damage. Remove that and give dex based stuff extra damage via sneak attack or multiple weaker attacks like the 5E monk or AD&D rate of fire on bows.

    When dex is a major save, initiative, major skill and melee and ranged to hit and damage that is what made it uber. 4E had to resort to gating stuff behind powers which didnt work so well. Drop rapiers down to d6, or find somehting else for dex to do like rapid strike, dual wielding, accuracy or something.
    I am ok with removing damage from finesse weapons.

    Note, in the eight ability setup:

    Strength − melee attack bonus, melee damage bonus
    Athletics − finesse attack bonus, grappling, Monk flurry attack
    Dexterity − missile attack bonus, Rogue sneak attack

    All three have different kinds of combat options. None are must-have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    OSR clones you dont get dex to damage, or dex to initiative. 3E,4E and 5E also went a bit over board on two handed weapons as well- 3E power attacj, 4E 1W, 2W etc benefit 1d12 and 2d6 weapons a lot and 5E GWM feat.
    Initiative probably belongs to ‘Sense’, whether Sense is part of Wisdom, part of Intelligence, or its own stand-alone ability.

    In any case, Sense is the ability to notice something coming, whence the ability to respond early for initiative.

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