Artificer Update: results of the survey and more

gyor · Jun 13, 2019

Sounds good to go to me, I'm happy with it. I look forward to the Psion now.

tglassy · Jun 13, 2019

Xeviat said:
A 17+ level rogue is doing something like 9d6+Dex at this point, extra +1d6 with TWFing or crossbow expert, with minimal chance to miss landing sneak attack

And a lvl 17 Artilarist is dealing 4d10+5 Firebolt damage with a +13 to hit, plus either 4d8 Balista with the ability to push, or up to 12d8 fire spread out amongst up to 12 enemies, or healing the party 2d8+10 health every round, or any combination of those, all as a bonus action that the Rogue is using for either his second attack or to disengage and run away. But at the same time they also are granting half cover to everyone nearby, which is not specified to only work on ranged attacks so it effectively grants a +2 to everyone’s AC and Dex saves, and have four Infused Magical items besides their Enhanced Wand that they are either using themselves, or giving to the rest of the party, all giving passive bonuses. Plus being a half caster. Meanwhile the Rogue has to make sure they even HAVE a Sneak Attack option, which they don’t always.

Xeviat said:
Also, you can't stack the same turret.

No, you can stack the same Turret. It says you CAN have different Turrets, not that you have to.

Xeviat · Jun 13, 2019

tglassy said:
And a lvl 17 Artilarist is dealing 4d10+5 Firebolt damage with a +13 to hit, plus either 4d8 Balista with the ability to push, or up to 12d8 fire spread out amongst up to 12 enemies, or healing the party 2d8+10 health every round, or any combination of those, all as a bonus action that the Rogue is using for either his second attack or to disengage and run away. But at the same time they also are granting half cover to everyone nearby, which is not specified to only work on ranged attacks so it effectively grants a +2 to everyone’s AC and Dex saves, and have four Infused Magical items besides their Enhanced Wand that they are either using themselves, or giving to the rest of the party, all giving passive bonuses. Plus being a half caster. Meanwhile the Rogue has to make sure they even HAVE a Sneak Attack option, which they don’t always.

No, you can stack the same Turret. It says you CAN have different Turrets, not that you have to.

Are you doubling up the turret damage? I'm seeing 1d8x2 for flamethrower or 4d8 for force ballista. You are right , you can stack them.

tglassy · Jun 13, 2019

The flamethrower is a 15 ft cube, which can catch 6 people, per turret. So it’s 1d8x12, potentially, or 2d8x6 if you hit six people twice.

Ancalagon · Jun 13, 2019

tglassy said:
IAlchemists can add their Int roll to either healing or Acid/Poison damage, so Acid Splash and Poison Spray become viable, and therefore makes him more SAD if those are the main form of combat.

The problem with those cantrips is that they are mediocre. Poison's pray range is horrid, and acid splash 1d6 is low and scales poorly (ie it gets comparatively worse with time). The solution to me is easy - add fire to the list. Alchemist's fire is a thing! It won't overshadow the warlock with eldrich blast, because the stat damage is only added once.

Yeah, a repeating Heavy Crossbow is awesome, but really only the Battle Smith gets the most out of it due to using Int instead of Dex. If any of the others try to use it instead of their own skills, they have to up both Int and Dex to accomplish the same thing.

I concur... but with the 1rst level spell (arcane armament?) you can add 1d6 to your crossbow, so leaving it behind hurts.... An alternative is to mostly use spells that don't rely on int for effectiveness, and hurt things with your crossbow and better dex.

Vael · Jun 13, 2019

I'm reasonably happy with the current Artificer, though I'd like to play one to be sure. Some general tweaks I'd make:

1. I'd be tempted to separate all the pets from their subclasses, or make them optional and give the Artificer a second choice. Call it a Bonded Item, and it can be a Homunculus, Iron Defender, an Intelligent Magical Item, etc. (Maybe only Artillerists can choose the Turret, and Archivists get the extra choice of their item)

2. Rather than creating all your infusions by touch after a long rest, I'd make it a 10 minute ritual that the Artificer can do during the day.

3. Maybe when learning the Infusion that allows you to mimic magic items, allow the Artificer to learn two per pick?

I'm more interested in making the Artificer more adaptable during the day. I like that they can swap out their Cantrips, I'd like more of that throughout the class.

Xeviat · Jun 13, 2019

tglassy said:
The flamethrower is a 15 ft cube, which can catch 6 people, per turret. So it’s 1d8x12, potentially, or 2d8x6 if you hit six people twice.

I'd never count on getting 6 people in a blast every round.

tglassy · Jun 13, 2019

Xeviat said:
I'd never count on getting 6 people in a blast every round.

You also don’t count on hitting your opponent every round, we’re looking at max potential. If you only have 1 enemy, then the flamethrower isn’t the best use of your turret. But if you have 2, the damage equals the ballista, just spread out, and if there are more than 2, then you are doing more damage than the ballista can, up to 6 enemies per ballista.

Kobold Avenger · Jun 13, 2019

tglassy said:
You also don’t count on hitting your opponent every round, we’re looking at max potential. If you only have 1 enemy, then the flamethrower isn’t the best use of your turret. But if you have 2, the damage equals the ballista, just spread out, and if there are more than 2, then you are doing more damage than the ballista can, up to 6 enemies per ballista.

Assuming the flamethrower will hit 6 targets, is like assuming that both (or even 1) of the ballistas will score critical hits. It's not likely to happen.

tglassy · Jun 13, 2019

Kobold Avenger said:
Assuming the flamethrower will hit 6 targets, is like assuming that both (or even 1) of the ballistas will score critical hits. It's not likely to happen.

The point is it CAN hit 6 targets, and as my post said, even if it's only hitting 3, it's doing more damage than the Ballista can. And because it's a save, and not an attack roll, even for those who save, they still take half damage, so some damage is done every turn.

I don't understand why people are arguing with me because I'm pointing out that the Turret can hit 6 targets. Nobody says "Yeah, but the odds of hitting a lot of people with fireball are so small, it doesn't even matter." Fireball can hit a 20 ft sphere, so they can hit lots of targets. it doesn't matter how many they can hit, it matters they can hit a lot of them. The turrets do 1d8 damage to up to six people for each turret. They don't need an upgrade. They're an AOE attack. It doesn't matter that "You'll never get six people lined up". It matters that it can hit six squares at once. The more people are there, the more it can hit, up to six people. AOE attacks are a thing in DND and most people think they're pretty good.

Sometimes I feel that people argue with me just to argue.