GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?

pemerton

Legend
I use boxed text, like this one from the recent Saltmarsh module:



That, coupled with the fact that I run over virtual tabletop meaning they have an actual map to look at as they explore, gets all the pertinent information into the player's hands and nicely evokes the tone of a scary, haunted house. Would we agree that the boxed text I quoted is narrative style, rather than conversational?
Its narrative style in my view. I'd focus on phrases like "rubbish is scattered around what was once a fine guest bedroom" rather than, say, it's a run-down bedroom with rubbish scattered about; there is evidence of rodent infestation ratjher than, say, you can see rats or you can see mouse-droppings everywhere; "its woodwork is worm-ridden" rather than, say, there seem to be termites in the timber; the curtains that once screened the bed are torn and stained rather than, say, the bed has torn, dirty curtains.

Also, how by mere visual inspection can one tell that it was once a guest bedroom?
 

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Hussar

Legend
I can walk into your house and tell you which bedroom is a guest bedroom just by looking (assuming you have one). That's not really a stumbling block to me.

But, effectively, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], we're back to vocabulary differences. You're simply using simpler language. So, is it fair to say that the division, for you, between conversational and prose is vocabulary choice? After all, you didn't change any word order. So, is it down to vocabulary, yes or no?
 

pemerton

Legend
I can walk into your house and tell you which bedroom is a guest bedroom just by looking (assuming you have one). That's not really a stumbling block to me.
But isn't that because the guest bedroom will look different from a currently occupied one. How can you tell that it was once a guest bedroom - rather than, say, an abandoned main bedroom? (I'm putting to one side the anachronism of projecting relatively modern architectural conceptions back into a house in the Greyhawk setting.)

you didn't change any word order
Its narrative style in my view. I'd focus on phrases like "rubbish is scattered around what was once a fine guest bedroom" rather than, say, it's a run-down bedroom with rubbish scattered about; there is evidence of rodent infestation ratjher than, say, you can see rats or you can see mouse-droppings everywhere; "its woodwork is worm-ridden" rather than, say, there seem to be termites in the timber; the curtains that once screened the bed are torn and stained rather than, say, the bed has torn, dirty curtains.
My first example changes word order and verb constructions and substitutes an adjective ("run down") for an adverb ("once"). My second example replaces an impersonal, nominalised construction with an active voice sentence. My third example replaces an adjective ("worm-ridden") with a syntactically more complex phrase ("seem to be termites in the timber"). My fourth example substitutes active for passive voice.

I don't think it's accurate to say that I didn't change any word order and only changed vocabulary.

Just look at the first example. Rubbish is scattered around what was once a fine guest bedroom leads with a main clause ("rubbish is scattered about") that is, as far as information is concerned, of secondary interest. The clause what was once a fine guest bedroom is the main information-bearing clause from the point of view of describing what's there. The mismatch between syntactic structure and informational structure is a stylistic device. My contrasting formulation - it's a run-down bedroom with rubbish scattered about - aligns the syntax with the information: the syntactically main clause is also the main information-bearing clause, while the bit about rubbish is reduced to an adjectival phrase. It's that, not the extremely modest vocabulary change (ie my example replaces was once fine with is run down and drops the "guest" because I don't see how the past use of a bedroom as a guest bedroom is knowable by mere visual inspection), that makes my reworking less "narrative" and more conversational.

The analysis I've just offered might also be relevant to the ongoing exchange between [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION] (? I think, haven't gone back to check) about what a conversational style might actually look like.
 

Hussar

Legend
Sorry, Pemerton, but, I'm really having trouble tracking the changes you are making here. Can you actually write out the paragraph that you think is more conversational? Trying to move back and forth between three different posts and two different pages means I am losing track of what you're trying to say. And, please, tone down the level of grammatical analysis. It's extremely difficult to parse.
 


Aldarc

Legend
I can walk into your house and tell you which bedroom is a guest bedroom just by looking (assuming you have one). That's not really a stumbling block to me.

But, effectively, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], we're back to vocabulary differences. You're simply using simpler language. So, is it fair to say that the division, for you, between conversational and prose is vocabulary choice? After all, you didn't change any word order. So, is it down to vocabulary, yes or no?
He's using simpler language, but I don't think he is necessarily using simpler vocabulary. There is not much difference of vocabulary between "rubbish is scattered around what was once a fine guest bedroom" and "it's a run-down bedroom with rubbish scattered about." And we could hardly say that those differences amount to any notions of higher vocabulary: e.g., fine, guest, once, what, was. Stylistically, however, the former does appear more elevated than the latter.

The analysis I've just offered might also be relevant to the ongoing exchange between [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION] (? I think, haven't gone back to check) about what a conversational style might actually look like.
I'll freely admit that Imaro's task if a bit of a tall order for me. It's essentially asking for pre-scripting out an imaginary conversation, which is an artificial scenario devoid of context. That's what makes [MENTION=85555]Bedrockgames[/MENTION]'s contribution so valuable, because he was able to link to the audio from one or more actual play sessions.
 


So... To me, when the DM is describing things, setting the scene, relaying the results of actions, he is doing narration. Doing it in a conversational style doesn't make it not narration.

In addition, the choice of using a conversational style still seems pretty deliberate. So, like in [MENTION=85555]Bedrockgames[/MENTION] 's case, he uses this style for a more authentic, easily accessible feel, and because he and his players prefer it. Similarly [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION] uses a neutral, "just the facts" style of narration in an effort not to unduly influence his players. So... Word choice and phrasing are important, even if they are sometimes important for different things.

Personally, I tend to move back and forth pretty fluidly between more fancy-pants talk and colloquialism depending on a number of factors, including things like, 'I thought of a cool thing ans want to try to express that to my players.' or, 'Steve is looking hangry, perhaps I can annoy him by using a lot of food words.' or, 'this combat is getting pretty intense, I'd better keep my descriptions punchy and on point.'
 

In addition, the choice of using a conversational style still seems pretty deliberate. So, like in @Bedrockgames 's case, he uses this style for a more authentic, easily accessible feel, and because he and his players prefer it. Similarly @Saelorn uses a neutral, "just the facts" style of narration in an effort not to unduly influence his players. So... Word choice and phrasing are important, even if they are sometimes important for different things.

I don't think speaking in natural conversational style is deliberate in the way speaking in a narrator voice is deliberate. This just seems like we are blurring distinctions in order to make them ultimately the same (back to 'everything is literature').
 

Hussar

Legend
I don't think speaking in natural conversational style is deliberate in the way speaking in a narrator voice is deliberate. This just seems like we are blurring distinctions in order to make them ultimately the same (back to 'everything is literature').

Well, kinda sorta.

Look at that description of the Dursley's above. That's adopting a very specific "voice". It's a sing songy story telling voice because the story is written for 10 year olds. It is a very deliberate choice.

Your choice of a conversational tone is deliberate since you don't like a more prose style pattern. But, make no mistake, you are still narrating the scene. There's no way to play an RPG without someone narrating the scene. Whether it's "rubbish is scattered around what was once a fine guest bedroom" or "it's a run-down bedroom with rubbish scattered about.", those are deliberate choices and both of those choices are setting the scene for the players.

The range isn't narrative vs conversational, it's prose vs conversational. An important distinction I think.
 

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