D&D 5E Magical secrets and multiclassing

Pickaxe · Jun 14, 2019

When selecting spells with Magical Secrets, can you select spells of a higher level than what your bard level would allow? For instance, if a Sorcerer 5/Bard 9 takes another level of bard, could the character select two 8th level spells, or are they limited to spells of 5th level or lower?

Thanks!

—Axe

DND_Reborn · Jun 14, 2019

I guess it is up to interpretation, but I would rule only up to 5th. The multiclassing rule allows you to use spells you know or prepare with higher level slots, but not to know or prepare spells higher than a level you can know.

That being said, if my DM ruled it the other way, it could be argued easily and understandably as well.

Ashrym · Jun 14, 2019

Class spells learned are based on the class chart.

It's no different than an 8th level sorc / 3rd level warlock grabbing a 4th level warlock for the ASI. The character would select a new spell based on the warlock level, not the M/C caster level.

77IM · Jun 14, 2019

Wellllll....

The text says, "A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip." To me, the mention of "as shown on the Bard table" is not merely a redundancy, but a specificity which overrides other methods of determining "a level you can cast" (such as consulting the multiclass spellcaster table). So I'd say 5th level for our example character.

DND_Reborn · Jun 14, 2019

77IM said:
Wellllll....

The text says, "A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip." To me, the mention of "as shown on the Bard table" is not merely a redundancy, but a specificity which overrides other methods of determining "a level you can cast" (such as consulting the multiclass spellcaster table). So I'd say 5th level for our example character.

Or you could read it the other way around, that the multiclassing spellcaster table is the specific that overrides all the other spellcaster tables (Bards, Clerics, etc.).

Although I agree with you, that's why I responded you could argue it reasonably well in either direction. When push comes to shove, it is simply up to the DM and the table IMO.

Riley37 · Jun 14, 2019

Here's my reasoning:

Sorcerer 5/Bard 9 has 7th level spell slots, but can only learn spells on the bard list up to 5th level. (The PC can gain benefits according to "when you cast this spell with a larger spell slot".) This, so far, is RAW. He can gaze longingly at Symbol, or any other of the 7th level spells on the Bard list, and think "I have a spell slot big enough for you!" but he can't add Symbol nor Forcecage to Spells Known.

When the PC advances to Sorceror 5 Bard 10, the bard uses Magical Secrets to pick any spell, from any list, and say "that's now a bard spell for me".

If the PC picks Disintegrate, then Disintegrate is now on the Bard spell list for that particular bard. He can't learn it yet, because he can't learn *any* level 6 spell from the bard list. At Bard 10, he can only *learn* the spells which are both (a) on the Bard list and (b) level 5 or lower. When this bard reaches Bard 11, *then* he becomes able to learn level 6 spells from the bard list; which, for him, includes Disintegrate.

Also, he can cast Disintegrate with an 8th level spell slot, since the MC spell SLOT table allows him slots of that size.

77IM · Jun 14, 2019

dnd4vr said:
Or you could read it the other way around, that the multiclassing spellcaster table is the specific that overrides all the other spellcaster tables (Bards, Clerics, etc.).

Although I agree with you, that's why I responded you could argue it reasonably well in either direction. When push comes to shove, it is simply up to the DM and the table IMO.

It's definitely ambiguous (that's why we're here) but let's look at this little gem from the Multiclassing chapter: "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class" (emphasis mine). So you determine your bard spells as if you were a bard and NOT multiclassed. Since the spells learned from Magical Secrets are included in the Spells Known column from the bard table, that seems pretty clear that they are bard spells known, and thus determined without regard to multiclassing.

Kobold Stew · Jun 15, 2019

Multiclassing is the optional rule, so the base interpretation of Magical Secrets has to make sense without it.

Now add the multiclassing: is there anything in the way multiclassing is worded that would make you change the interpretation of magical secrets? No.

Therefore, you can only take up to a 5th level spell.

(That would be my argument)

Blue · Jun 15, 2019

Every person responding is going to the same place, showing that if you give it thought the meaning is clear. The number of routes of reasoning - all ending up at the same place - show how consistent that it's only bard level.