D&D 4E Intelligent Blademaster Swordmage from 4e, how might I build him for 5e.

77IM · Jun 17, 2019

You might try fighter 1/abjurer wizard X -- the abjurer's Projecting Ward shields allies in a way similar to aegis. You can use mage armor and shield to have a really great AC without heavy armor.

Unfortunately, 5E doesn't usually allow substituting ability scores, for the most part. So unless you want to have a high Dex, you are going to have to go homebrew for that. If I were the DM, I'd be really hesitant to allow that, especially for AC. I might be willing to allow an Int-based Sword-based variant of shillelagh at the cost of a feat, since it's not much more powerful than other wizard cantrips. But Int instead of Dex for AC is a tough sell, since a fighter/wizard would otherwise need bulky heavy armor (and Str to wear it) to get a decent AC. So my recommendation is to just have a high Dex plus a high Int.

I'm also not sure how to do at-will damage reflection in 5E. At higher levels you've got fire shield, and I might be willing to allow a homebrew hellish rebuke. However, you could also take more levels of fighter and eventually become a battlemaster with the Riposte maneuver.

I once made an adept class that is based, in part, on the swordmage. But it's 100% homebrew, and really reflects my own opinions about fighter/mages, not necessarily that of the broader community.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

FrogReaver said:
You won't be able to base attacks on INT but you can do a split 16/16 setup and then go to 18/18 by the time a single stat PC had their stat to 20. To me that solves the stat issues quite easily.

After that it would be finding abilities that allow you to magically attack. Pretty much booming/greenflame blade covers this.

After that it's getting good defenses. In 5e that's literally about using heavy armor or attacking with dex. In either case you should be covered here.

It is kind of a work around but for functionality sake and not exactly the right flavor, but Dex it would need to be

FrogReaver said:
You need a way to shield allies. There's not many abilities that work here. The abjuration Wizard's ward is about the most notable. So that's what I would aim for.

Finally you need a way to damage enemies that attack you. You need hellish rebuke or something similar for that.

So basically what you need IMO, a fighter 1-4 multiclass with abjuration wizard X that takes the booming blade cantrip, uses lots of abjuration spells, and is allowed to take the hellish rebuke spell.

You would have everything you need by level 7.

I like that you gave level recommendations that deserves a thumbs up in itself..

it seems weird to go level 4 without getting that level 5 extra attack though.

FrogReaver · Jun 17, 2019

Garthanos said:
It is kind of a work around but for functionality sake and not exactly the right flavor, but Dex it would need to be

I like that you gave level recommendations that deserves a thumbs up in itself..

it seems weird to go level 4 without getting that level 5 extra attack though.

Thanks, there's no need for extra attack when you are using booming blade/greenflame blade. Extra attack would yield slightly higher damage at a major loss of flavor. Even then it's only slightly higher damage till you hit level 11.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

77IM said:
You might try fighter 1/abjurer wizard X -- the abjurer's Projecting Ward shields allies in a way similar to aegis. You can use mage armor and shield to have a really great AC without heavy armor.

Unfortunately, 5E doesn't usually allow substituting ability scores, for the most part. So unless you want to have a high Dex, you are going to have to go homebrew for that. If I were the DM, I'd be really hesitant to allow that, especially for AC. I might be willing to allow an Int-based Sword-based variant of shillelagh at the cost of a feat, since it's not much more powerful than other wizard cantrips. But Int instead of Dex for AC is a tough sell, since a fighter/wizard would otherwise need bulky heavy armor (and Str to wear it) to get a decent AC. So my recommendation is to just have a high Dex plus a high Int.

I find it kind of weird that mage armor is Dex bound....

77IM said:
I'm also not sure how to do at-will damage reflection in 5E. At higher levels you've got fire shield, and I might be willing to allow a homebrew hellish rebuke. However, you could also take more levels of fighter and eventually become a battlemaster with the Riposte maneuver.

The battlemaster certainly has some cool bits to it. Their abilities aren't actually at will either.

The white lotus riposte works somewhat better when you do not have so completely awesome armor but I really liked the idea of fire and force and lightning from my previous attacks bursting back at those who managed to hit Alek.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

FrogReaver said:
Thanks, there's no need for extra attack when you are using booming blade/greenflame blade. Extra attack would yield slightly higher damage at a major loss of flavor. Even then it's only slightly higher damage till you hit level 11.

Ah thanks yes flavor is definitely more important in that regards.

gargoyleking · Jun 17, 2019

Go Mountain dwarf wizard with War Magic specialty. At lv 4, you can take heavy armor and buff your strength at the same time. Str becomes your more primary stat, but Booming Blade is great for locking down enemies, or punishing them for trying to go elsewhere. Once you reach 6th level spells, Tenser's Transformation gives another 50 THP on top of advantage, extra damage and an extra attack of it's own.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

Fenris-77 said:
Not really, the Savant class from Touch of Class II covers Intelligence-based combat pretty well. Multiclass that with Bladesinger and you're looking good.

Examined this closer and wow.... that is definitely the right direction

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

gargoyleking said:
Go Mountain dwarf wizard with War Magic specialty. At lv 4, you can take heavy armor and buff your strength at the same time. Str becomes your more primary stat, but Booming Blade is great for locking down enemies, or punishing them for trying to go elsewhere. Once you reach 6th level spells, Tenser's Transformation gives another 50 THP on top of advantage, extra damage and an extra attack of it's own.

That definitely has the magical defender angle in there.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

Okay So far Is this what we have

From Eldritch Knight 3 Levels
definitely has components which were basically just flavor in 4e - Weapon Bond to be specific.

Savant: Smart Defense. 1 Level
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC. In addition, while wearing light armor if you have one hand free, you gain a bonus to AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (up to a maximum no higher than your proficiency bonus). Alternatively, while wearing medium armor, you may use Intelligence instead of Dexterity when calculating AC.

Savant: Brains Over Brawn
Starting at 6th level, you can use Intelligence instead of Strength or Dexterity for attack and damage rolls using weapons
.
Abjurer Wizard: Projected Ward 6 levels
Starting at 6th level, when a creature that you can see within 10 metres of you takes damage, you can use your reaction to cause your Arcane Ward to absorb that damage. If this damage reduces the ward to 0 hit points, the warded creature takes any remaining damage.

The White Lotus Riposte a relatively minor but flavorful feat for 4e seems to be undoable really Hellish rebuke doesn't look like it really would work

Tony Vargas · Jun 17, 2019

Garthanos said:
Okay So far Is this what we have

From Eldritch Knight 3 Levels
definitely has components which were basically just flavor in 4e - Weapon Bond to be specific.

Savant: Smart Defense. 1 Level
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC. In addition, while wearing light armor if you have one hand free, you gain a bonus to AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (up to a maximum no higher than your proficiency bonus). Alternatively, while wearing medium armor, you may use Intelligence instead of Dexterity when calculating AC.

Savant: Brains Over Brawn
Starting at 6th level, you can use Intelligence instead of Strength or Dexterity for attack and damage rolls using weapons
.
Abjurer Wizard: Projected Ward 6 levels
Starting at 6th level, when a creature that you can see within 10 metres of you takes damage, you can use your reaction to cause your Arcane Ward to absorb that damage. If this damage reduces the ward to 0 hit points, the warded creature takes any remaining damage.

The White Lotus Riposte a relatively minor but flavorful feat for 4e seems to be undoable really Hellish rebuke doesn't look like it really would work