D&D General Favorite things about your favorite edition: MECHANICS/RULES ONLY

oreofox · Jun 20, 2019

Saelorn made me think of something I really like in 4e (despite not caring for the edition itself just from cursory glances at the first PHB): Minions. I wish it would have been brought over into 5e. But, since I am the DM, I did bring them over. Couple those with the "cleave through monsters" optional rule in the DMG, it makes the melee types feel badass being able to mow down multiple enemies in a similar way to the spellcasters (though, up close instead of far away).

Tallifer · Jun 20, 2019

4E: The whole system was transparent and logical when I read the first few pages of rules: everything else just followed from those rules by extension or exception

rôles
powers for everyone
power cards
paragon paths and epic destinies
expected wealth/residuum/everything about the treasure system
monsters and NPCs not built as characters: easy to create and run

Tony Vargas · Jun 20, 2019

oreofox said:
Saelorn made me think of something I really like in 4e (despite not caring for the edition itself just from cursory glances at the first PHB): Minions. I wish it would have been brought over into 5e. But, since I am the DM, I did bring them over.

The difference between a 4e minion and just a very under-level 5e monster is mainly that the minion has a chance of surviving AEs ('missed' attack never damages a minion - in 5e, it'd be "minions are never killed by damage taken in spite of succeeding on a saving throw"), and that it's hitting closer to even money vs just-barely-enough-to-be-relevant under BA.

Ath-kethin · Jun 20, 2019

billd91 said:
2e
- Kits - yeah, I know, many were unevenly designed, but I submit the idea was still a good one and Al-Qadim put them to fabulous use

You might be interested in some of our stuff. We introduced the concept of character kits in Midnight in the City of Brass, which you can check out HERE, with a free preview available HERE.

We also have a free document discussing some of our design choices and approaches (particularly to our interpretation of the sha'ir, which is one of the kits we included above) available HERE.

After long discussion, we determined that there was definitely a design space in 5e for something similar to backgrounds, but with prerequisites. Unlike subclasses, our kits do not require a character to belong to a certain class, though with some of the skill requirements some classes will have an easier time meeting the criteria than others. But ultimately our kits are designed to give a minor mechanical boost to a roleplaying feature, and as such should not overpower a character who takes one vs. a character who does not.

We will be releasing Adventures in the Land of Fate, a more comprehensive Al-Qadim resource, later this summer, which will have some additional kits in it. This book will be 50+ pages and we will offer it Pay What You Want.

All of those links above go to our product pages on DMSGuild.

oreofox · Jun 20, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
The difference between a 4e minion and just a very under-level 5e monster is mainly that the minion has a chance of surviving AEs ('missed' attack never damages a minion - in 5e, it'd be "minions are never killed by damage taken in spite of succeeding on a saving throw"), and that it's hitting closer to even money vs just-barely-enough-to-be-relevant under BA.

Then a special quality of the "minion" descriptor would be Evasion. They take no damage on a successful saving throw, and half damage on a failed one. Half-damage is still more than enough to kill them anyway.

doctorbadwolf · Jun 20, 2019

Gonna start with favorite things about an edition I don’t like overall.

3.5. Bard Songs. I want to sing a song, or chant, or yell a battle cry, and all my allies who can hear me benefit.

4e. The Assassin Class. Built from the ground up to be a mystic shadow death dealer. Needed a numbers errata for its powers, but even so it was just so damn fun to play. The Executioner was also quite fun.
Rituals. 5e rituals are fun, but there is still room for spells that can only be cast as a ritual, and don’t mess around with spell slots. Rituals were rad.
Alchemy. The wide range of items, learning formulas the same way rituals were learned, the mechanics of them (for the most part), all of it.
AEDU. I wanted more utility powers and I wish Skill Powers had been in from the jump, and I wish every class just used its main stat for Basic Attacks without needing a feat, but goodness I loved Powers.
Themes/Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies. IMO they are prestige classes brought to the full fruition of their potential. Sat alongside class, rather than replacing it, it’s just good. Great story additions, fun ways to add weird to a character, just one the best things in any edition.
Rules consistency. I had a handle on the rules after a few sessions, and could generally guess at how to rule something, and end up within a stones throw of “correct” most of the time.
Balance that made making stuff up not break the game, and even the “broken” options weren’t actually broken.
Bards, Monks, Shamans, Artificer, Seeker, Avenger, Warlock, were all so juicy!
Nearly all the Essentials class variants, and especially so many of the utility powers they added to the game.
All the races, and how races were built.
Skill challenges.
How skills worked, how nearly every skill (maybe not Streetwise, but all the others I think) had some level of combat usage, as well as being important to out of combat scenes.
The way skill challenges could be run as part of a combat scene.
Martial Practices.
Inherent Bonuses. Magic items not required, but also a character with tons of them, and one with none, could reasonably be in the same party without one outshining the other.
Purpose built options as a basic design paradigm.
Monster/encounter design. Could rave for days on how good it is.
probably more I can’t think of right now!

5e
Bounded Accuracy.
Spell slots and upcasting.
Rogues.
Paladins. Only edition where I wanted to play one.
Most or the classes are fun and satisfying.
Tools, especially with Xanather’s out
Backgrounds. Liked them in 4e, love seeing them reach their potential in 5e. I hope we see more backgrounds like the Ravnica ones eventually.
Quick and easy design, simple to learn.
Other atuff! I’m sleepy!

LuisCarlos17f · Jun 20, 2019

Monster/racial/template class.

Tony Vargas · Jun 21, 2019

oreofox said:
Then a special quality of the "minion" descriptor would be Evasion.

That'd work for a lot of 'em. There's 5 other saves but rarely for 1/2....
...does 5e also have Mettle, I wonder?

oreofox · Jun 21, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
That'd work for a lot of 'em. There's 5 other saves but rarely for 1/2....
...does 5e also have Mettle, I wonder?

Most damaging spells typically call for a Dexterity save. Constitution sometimes does (usually for poison or some sort of gas attack), and Intelligence (very rare), typically for psychic damage. I guess a better thing would be to create something like "Minion's Luck" (a better name escapes me so late at night for me), giving minions the effects of Evasion, but for every damaging attack that requires a save. I don't know. Whatever. My brain is not wanting to function this late.

Fanaelialae · Jun 21, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
The difference between a 4e minion and just a very under-level 5e monster is mainly that the minion has a chance of surviving AEs ('missed' attack never damages a minion - in 5e, it'd be "minions are never killed by damage taken in spite of succeeding on a saving throw"), and that it's hitting closer to even money vs just-barely-enough-to-be-relevant under BA.

The other big difference is that minions dealt enough damage and have sufficient attack bonus to make them scary. Albeit, Bounded Accuracy more or less handles the attack bonus part.

Sure, you could use a kobold as a 5e "minion" against a high level party, but the damage from that kobold will be piddly at best. Even in vast numbers, they won't have the threat that comes from a proper 4e style minion.

IMO, to properly implement the concept of a minion, you give them 1 HP. Up their damage (and possibly attack bonus) to the point where they are threatening. Additionally, they negate any damage taken after making a successful save.

Veering into house rules for a moment, I've been toying with the idea of having minions who avoid damage by making a successful save fall prone. This helps to avoid the odd Rambo minion who just keeps making saves and refuses to die. (The idea is that they can't use their damage negation when already prone.)