[5E] Urban Intrigue Campaign - Gating the Sandbox - Page 4
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris-77 View Post
    Why thank you good sir. Failing a PDF the SRD will do me juts fine. I do love new rule sets.
    You can buy the PDF from Evil Hat Games.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    You can buy the PDF from Evil Hat Games.
    I do not purchase new RPGs sight unseen. If your bookcase is anything like mine it is littered with the dead dreams of hundreds of impulse RPG purchases. I try to be a little more discerning about that now than I was in my more intemperate youth. I'm combing through the SRD now though, and I will, as seems appropriate, purchase a copy if I like it. Again, thanks.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris-77 View Post
    I do not purchase new RPGs sight unseen. If your bookcase is anything like mine it is littered with the dead dreams of hundreds of impulse RPG purchases. I try to be a little more discerning about that now than I was in my more intemperate youth. I'm combing through the SRD now though, and I will, as seems appropriate, purchase a copy if I like it. Again, thanks.
    I'm confused. You were looking for a PDF, but to buy? Did you think that the publishers would just give it away?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris-77 View Post
    @Yaarel - Yeah, non-lethal combat is something that needs to be dealt with. So far I'm just going with declared non-lethal, at least conceptually, and I'm going to let the PCs decide, probably at the onset of combat. That part is easy. Subdual damage is a place where I can legitimately push nova damage builds too, up to a point. If you want to knock out the guard sergeant, who's a 3rd level fighter nothing short of a big nova, declared non-lethal, will get it done. Actual high nova builds aren't going to be a big part of my campaign, but I do think it's a great way for rogue dips to have a little niche utility and actually quite fluffy relative to what backstab is supposed to represent.
    I am in the D&D camp that views hit points as both physical and nonphysical (stamina, alertness, skill, luck, etcetera). So, for me,

    ALL DAMAGE IS SUBDUAL DAMAGE

    until the magical number of ‘zero’.

    Zero is when the serious contact happens. Zero is when a lethal blow actually lands. Anything else is just fencing.

    So, instead of a blade thru the heart − at zero − the attacker can instead land a punch in jaw to knock the opponent out − or whatever. Zero is when the opponent loses control, and the attacker has total control.

    In this context, there are no mechanical conditions or consequences until reaching zero, and therefore no actual injuries, until reaching zero.

    Especially in this traditional understanding of hit points (as articulated by Gygax), the more recent tradition of the ‘bloodied condition’ is useful. Bloodied is a kind of landmark, that separates the boundary from strictly nonphysical hit point loss, to semi-physical hit point loss requiring bandages and the medieval equivalent of sunglasses to hide a black eye.

    In any case, using the zero as the moment of life-or-death, and of total loss of control, is excellent for an urban setting.



    Because zero is the magic number, 5e already works excellently for urban campaigns and nonlethal combat. Making use of the bloodied condition is just an additional excellency.
    Last edited by Yaarel; Thursday, 20th June, 2019 at 04:02 AM.

  5. #35
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    I want to point out, Gygax himself caused this confusion about what ‘hit points’ are.

    Gygax had a double standard.

    When it came to PLAYER CHARACTERS the damage was mainly non-physical (except the Constitution hit bonus were physical).

    But when it came to MONSTERS, Gygax recommended making the hit points as gory and graphic − and physical − as possible for the sake of a vivid narrative.

    So, traditional D&D was doing both nonphysical and physical simultaneously. In the interests of systematization is legitimate for different D&D camps to interpret hit points in a way that prefers one tradition over the other.

    For me, I unequivocally prefer nonphysical until zero. But I appreciate the bloodied condition as a kind of narrative heads-up.

    And for nonlethal combat and for urban ‘police’ settings, I strongly recommend the ‘nonphysical’ tradition.
    Last edited by Yaarel; Thursday, 20th June, 2019 at 09:07 PM.

  6. #36
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    Just dropping in to say that I've found this thread to be really informative for this style of campaign.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovinomancer View Post
    I'm confused. You were looking for a PDF, but to buy? Did you think that the publishers would just give it away?
    Not at all, but I'm not going to buy it with no idea what's in it either. This is why I miss my FLGS. I like to take a quick spin through a book before I buy it. The site you directed me to is perfect.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaarel View Post
    I want to point out, Gygax himself caused this confusion about what ‘hit points’ are.

    Gygax had a double standard.

    When it came to PLAYER CHARACTERS the damage was mainly non-physical (except the Constitution hit bonus examples were pretty physical).

    But when it came to MONSTERS, Gygax recommended making the hit points as gory and graphic − and physical − as possible for the sake of a vivid narrative.

    So, traditional D&D was doing both nonphysical and physical simultaneously. In the interests of systematization is legitimate for different D&D camps to interpret hit points in a way that prefers one tradition over the other.

    For me, I unequivocally prefer nonphysical until zero. But I appreciate the bloodied condition as a kind of narrative heads-up.

    And for nonlethal combat and for urban ‘police’ settings, I strongly recommend the ‘nonphysical’ tradition.
    One way to handle this that I've used in the past that I may reuse is to call the first hit die your 'meat', and the rest of it skill or whatever. At least for PCs. The only differnece between the two the last time I used it was to prevent healing overflow from one to the other. Meat first, then the skill, and resting only got you back a single meat point. It's not actually that much different from the system as-is, but i found it useful from a narrative standpoint. (so it sounds like we play that similarly)

    My approach to the monsters vs PCs is pretty traditionally Gygaxian, with the exception in some campaigns of leveled Character Class NPCs.

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