How many 1st level Fighers can an 11th Level Fighter Kill?

Bacon Bits · Jun 18, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
The ones in the example are dedicated melee grunts who do just that. All you need is a lure....

The ones in the example begin adjacent to the Fighter and new ones spawn immediately. Movement isn't considered, so Misty Step, Dimension Door, or Fly are right out. An Evoker with Thunderclap or would do extremely well (3d6 + 5 vs all 8 targets, save DC 17 for half) and any Wizard with Wall of Fire would presumably take out at least 80 for each 4th, 5th, and 6th level spell slot. However, you obviously can't pick a set of spells after the scenario has been revealed. That's just using knowledge you wouldn't possibly have. I mean, given the above scenario, I'd take a Ranger with Horde Breaker and Whirlwind Attack over a Fighter, but that doesn't mean it'd be a fair comparison.

aco175 · Jun 18, 2019

What would the math be if you allow flanking rules for the 1st level fighters?

Tony Vargas · Jun 18, 2019

Bacon Bits said:
The ones in the example begin adjacent to the Fighter and new ones spawn immediately. Movement isn't considered

The fighter is pure melee, so movement isn't relevant, the fight starts when the two sides come to grips, and, movement being what it is in 5e, that means the fighter will be surrounded from the first round of actual fighting until he whittles 'em down to less than 8. New opponents don't 'spawn' they just step into the spaces opened up by their allies dropping. Were the fighter more of a Conan, he'd be standing on a pile of bodies.

If the fighter were a capable archer, movement & starting distance are suddenly relevant - if the 1st level fighters are all archers, too, suddenly, it being an open field, it's not again.

Simple DPR calculations are simple, and require simple premises & situations.

LordEntrails · Jun 18, 2019

[MENTION=5889]Stalker0[/MENTION] & [MENTION=6987520]dnd4vr[/MENTION]

Thanks, those are useful to know. And it's seems like just what the system as advertised should/would produce.

LordEntrails · Jun 18, 2019

Oh, since you have the numbers....

How does it fair for a 5th level fighter? 15th? 20th?

What if the opponent are 2nd level? or 5th?

ParanoydStyle · Jun 18, 2019

the shield, +2 damage from dueling

I'd be surprised if someone else hasn't already pointed this out three pages into the thread, but you cannot, in fact, have both of these things. Unless I'm misunderstanding the 5E rules, which is possible. (Doesn't matter much in this case, as the error appears both on the 11th level fighters and the 1st level fighters, but I think the +2 bonus to damage from dueling requires you to have your off-hand free.)

Anyway, it seems to me like the first level fighter's ability to Second Wind is a HUGE factor here. What would the numbers look like without that, out of curiosity? (i.e. assuming that the 1st level Fighters had already used their Second Wind for the day or whatever).

Oh and, I realize everyone knows this, but a differently spec'd 11th level fighter might be able to kill more 1st level fighters before he goes down, like without getting into the "calculation is a nightmare" stuff like combat maneuvers, just things like a great big two-handed weapon fighter (I think the greatsword is mathematically the best in 5E

Oh, and the rule of the 11th level fighter not having any magic items does not seem reasonable for 11th level. Like, while this verges upon the talked-to-death-then-back-to-life-then-talked-to-death-again "fighters can't have nice things" debate, I feel like the game's default assumption is that an 11th level fighter would have at least a magic weapon and magic armor, and if not a magic shield, then the magic weapon or armor would most likely have an ability, plus some minor magic items you could replace with potions of healing for the sake of simplicity. (I am pretty sure the "character wealth by level" table, vague as it is in 5E, allows for an 11th level fighter to "buy" all of these things using the "magic item value" table, as ULTRA VAGUE as that is in 5E.)

Tony Vargas · Jun 18, 2019

Bacon Bits said:
However, you obviously can't pick a set of spells after the scenario has been revealed. That's just using knowledge you wouldn't possibly have. I mean, given the above scenario, I'd take a Ranger with Horde Breaker and Whirlwind Attack over a Fighter, but that doesn't mean it'd be a fair comparison.

You only need a long rest to change your prepared spells - that significantly less foreknowledge than might be implied in choosing feats, features, sub-class & class (a build-at-level really).

Azzy · Jun 18, 2019

ParanoydStyle said:
I'd be surprised if someone else hasn't already pointed this out three pages into the thread, but you cannot, in fact, have both of these things. Unless I'm misunderstanding the 5E rules, which is possible. (Doesn't matter much in this case, as the error appears both on the 11th level fighters and the 1st level fighters, but I think the +2 bonus to damage from dueling requires you to have your off-hand free.)

No, shields are fine—you just can't use a weapon in the other hand. This was covered in Sage Advice.

Sword of Spirit · Jun 18, 2019

To see how they would fair against an assumed group of soldiers or guards, use the actual “guard” stat block in the game (since actual fighters are more powerful) maybe giving one of them max hp as the leader. To shake it up more, throw in a veteran as a leader.

Bobble · Jun 18, 2019

Here's how I DM it. The fighter is surrounded by 10 guys 5' feet away. The fighter attacks the two in front of him. The 8 remaining guys grab his legs, torso and arms. The fighter managed to kill both in front of him but the remaining 1,400 lbs. of muscle pin him to the ground.