Missing Battle Master Manuevers

Azzy · Jun 18, 2019

Pauln6 said:
I bought a supplement that had some new manoeuvres, including warlord ones.

Which one?

I've also seen advanced manoeuvres that cost two dice but are full of awesome.

Where?

Mistwell · Jun 18, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
These aren’t good arguments against adding those abilities to the BM manuever list.

doctorbadwolf said:
Y’all seem to forget that feats are already duplicated in class abilities. It’s fine.

The Mobile feat doesn’t make the Swashbuckler or Drunken Master problematically designed.

Hell, the BM already has Parry, even though Defensive Duelist does roughly the same thing.

Oh I definitely think "Major thing a melee-oriented feat does" is a reason to not add it to the Battle Master list. Fighters get the most feats in the game, they're almost the only melee class in the game, and this is a melee feat meant almost entirely or them. Yeah don't take from that feat and give to the Battle Master as just a gimme bonus maneuver. Bad idea.

Bard ability is more complicated. I can see adding that as a maneuver. But not the Sentinel feat's ability.

Mistwell · Jun 18, 2019

double

doctorbadwolf · Jun 18, 2019

Mistwell said:
Oh I definitely think "Major thing a melee-oriented feat does" is a reason to not add it to the Battle Master list. Fighters get the most feats in the game, they're almost the only melee class in the game, and this is a melee feat meant almost entirely or them. Yeah don't take from that feat and give to the Battle Master as just a gimme bonus maneuver. Bad idea.

Bard ability is more complicated. I can see adding that as a maneuver. But not the Sentinel feat's ability.

Again, Defensive Duelist and Parry are basically the same thing already.

Also, Fighter is far from being the only melee class. Rangers and rogues are as melee (which is to say, they can go either way and be quite powerful) as the fighter, and Barbarians and Paladins are more melee focused than the Fighter.

Lastly, it’s one part of a feat. Feats have bullet points that overlap with class stuff all over the place.

Mistwell · Jun 18, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
Again, Defensive Duelist and Parry are basically the same thing already.

Also, Fighter is far from being the only melee class. Rangers and rogues are as melee (which is to say, they can go either way and be quite powerful) as the fighter, and Barbarians and Paladins are more melee focused than the Fighter.

Lastly, it’s one part of a feat. Feats have bullet points that overlap with class stuff all over the place.

How much you want to bet the class which takes the Sentinel feat the most is Fighter, by a more than 2 to 1 margin over any other class taking it?

doctorbadwolf · Jun 18, 2019

Mistwell said:
How much you want to bet the class which takes the Sentinel feat the most is Fighter, by a more than 2 to 1 margin over any other class taking it?

Lets assume you’re right, for the moment.

So what?

Tony Vargas · Jun 18, 2019

Mistwell said:
How much you want to bet the class which takes the Sentinel feat the most is Fighter, by a more than 2 to 1 margin over any other class taking it?

So a similar maneuver would be a big plus for the BM in a game w/o feats - and in one with, he might just take the feat, instead.

Feats are optional rules, afterall, as are MCing, and there's a lot of standard options that are decidedly redundant in the presence of either or both.

Mistwell · Jun 18, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
Lets assume you’re right, for the moment.

So what?

See my first reply before you tried to refute it with that?

Tony Vargas said:
So a similar maneuver would be a big plus for the BM in a game w/o feats - and in one with, he might just take the feat, instead.

Feats are optional rules, afterall, as are MCing, and there's a lot of standard options that are decidedly redundant in the presence of either or both.

Yes, feats are optional rules...and so would any supplement with expanded Battle Master maneuvers. So that's a push. I mean, I can see a supplement that breaks up all the feats into optional additions to various classes. That itself might be an interesting supplement, if it could be done. But as things stand, there is no reason to duplicate a feat which Fighters already often take, with an optional Battle Master manuever to duplicate a primary part of that mostly-fighter feat. A DM of course could do it for their game, but it doesn't seem like good space for an official expansion option in a future book.

And, I know what you guys are after here. I am not sure why we're not talking about the actual thing you guys are after as a theme - a non-magical means of doing what spellcasters do, similar to the Warlord. OK, I get that. I appreciate that concept. But I don't think we're going to get that in an official supplement, and I am not even sure it's a good idea to do it by means of grabbing various abilities from other magical classes or existing feats for a Battle Master. Just put out a Warlord.

Pauln6 · Jun 18, 2019

Azzy said:
Which one?

Where?

5 minute workday - Manoeuvers and Commander.
I think the advanced manoeuvres I cribbed from a discussion on here somewhere.

I also think the BM needs more superiority dice. I house-ruled so that they get one extra superiority die and one extra manoeuvre which they must choose from the above supplement. I also upgraded the feat to grant 2 superiority dice and one extra manoeuvre from the above list.